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pageThis document contains posts 1168-1243 from the Anthony Thomas Quick Topic discussion board. Posts are in reverse order. To follow the conversation, read from bottom to top.
Hari Sampath 1243
08-01-2001 07:19 PM
>>>I see all my posts exposing the intellectual bankruptcy of the anti-Sai gang <<<
Question and Answer time:
What day was October 20th 1940 ? (proof : http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar and http://www.panchangam.com )
Answer : Sunday.
What does Sai Baba say about the same date ?
Answer : Monday.
Question : What does sarf ask for ?
Answer : proof from the local school that it was a Sunday !!
Question : Who is intellectually dishonest as well as bankrupt ?
Answer : Obvious
Hari Sampath
Tony O'Clery 1240
08-01-2001 04:15 PM
Just as a tree, though cut down,
sprouts up again if its roots remain uncut and firm, even so, until the craving that lies dormant is rooted out, suffering springs up again and again.
Dhammapaa 338
Balaraman Suresh 1239
08-01-2001 04:02 PM
Edited by author 08-01-2001 04:04 PM
Somebody in the board posted that i would be better off in India than here in USA,thanks for your concern but i think your paying lip service just like Parti Baba.Thanks i don't need it.Parti Baba is a born liar as can be seen from various discourse that he has been talking.One such discourse that i recall is in 1968 where in he talks about his Ugandan trip and how American people are working for his visit here,and that he will put an end to Vedic Formulaes being sold to westerner's.Its 33 year's and where is Parti Baba?Parti Baba will dig his own grave and die,nobody need anything to do to expose him?His own actions are enough.
George at Sunrise 1233
08-01-2001 02:04 PM
Anthony, sorry the deleted messages from this board are slow getting on to Sunrise. We have a backlog of articles and letters, lots of editing to do, and we'll be missing one of the computers for awhile. But your files are safe on a zip disk. We hope everything will be on the site within a week.
We don't mind the pressure. Who knows? The expose' may be suddenly over sooner than we think. Some big event that no one can deny....and that will be it.
Anthony 1228
08-01-2001 02:39 AM
Some posts have now been deleted. Terrie is correct. I do leave some of the abusive posts up from devotees, so when we speak of the irrational behaviour displayed by devotees, it can be seen to be so. However, we probably have sufficient now.
Note: For admin purposes all previous posts up to number 515 will now be located in the duscussion section of the website http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/index.htm
Hari
Please don't waste your energy replying to abusive posts. They are designed to make us react. It can be a good lesson for us to let things pass by as having no relevance to anything useful.
George at Sunrise 1226
08-01-2001 12:43 AM
The posts today aren't going on Sunrise as fast as we hoped. We may need another day or two. We'll let you know when they're on the site. There were lots of interruptions today.
Hari Sampath 1225
08-01-2001 12:19 AM
Edited by author 08-01-2001 12:21 AM
To Saishoot:
>>TRUTH IS NOT DECIDED BY SHOW OF HANDS<<
That is what we are saying, and that unfortunately seems to be what has happened to Sai Baba devotees......I am referring to the tricks called "miracles".
>>SAI HASN'T COME TO COLLECT BAKTHAS OR FORM A NEW RELIGION..<<
That is the first thing a cult leader should say, when he is embarking on such a journey, and Sai Baba does so very ineffectively and unconvincingly.
>>HE IS NOT LOOKING FOR FOLLOWERS<<
If his intent is not to have any followers, his wish shall be granted soon .
>>KRISHNA AVATAR OR RAMA ARE NOT AS POPULAR AS Siva, Bbalaji, etc<<
Do you know how many temples there are for Lord Rama and Lord Krishna in India ? Did you know that when the TV serials Ramayan and Mahabharat were telecast in India, the entire country will come to a standstill ? Did you know that even movie actors who played roles of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna were elected to Parliament ? Did you know that while all these things appear entirely foolish, that still demonstrates the ridiculous extents peoples' faith in these Avatars of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna took them to ? Did you know that the Ramaayana and the Baghavatham are worshipped in the homes of hundreds of millions of Hindus ?
>>So what..no god is conducting any popularity contest..cheap shots like these are meaningless<<
Here are a few Sai Baba statements that answer your question :
****But I call you to me and even grant worldly boons so that you may turn God-ward. No Avathar has done like this before, going among the masses, counseling them, guiding them, consoling them, uplifting them, and directing them along the path of truth, righteousness, peace and love (sathya, dharma, santhi and prema)
***** Rama came to feed the roots truth (sathya) and righteousness dharma.
Krishna came to foster peace shanti, and love prema. Now all these four are in danger of being dried up. That is why the present Avathar has come
****you will notice in the career of the same Krishna that he underwent defeat in his efforts and endeavors, on a few occasions****
***Now, I must tell you that, during this Sai Avathar, there is no place for even such 'drama' with scenes of failures and defeats! What I will, must take place; what I plan must succeed***
***There were many leaders and men of affluence, but none of them took up the task of providing drinking water in this region. It was Sai Baba who quenched the thirst of lakhs of people of Rayalaseema. Today, the cost of heart surgeries run into lakhs of rupees. Again it is Sai Baba who has established a Super Speciality Hospital, where most expensive heart surgeries are done totally free of cost.
***No other individual, or no government for that matter, has been able to provide free education or free medical care.Have any of them been able to accomplish at least one-thousandth of what Sai Baba is doing? No, no, no! It is only Sathya Sai Baba who has undertaken such noble tasks without a trace of selfishness. (cheers). ****
***These persons are unable to do even a thousandth of what Sathya Sai Baba is doing for society****
***In the future, you are going to witness many more glorious events. There is nothing that Sathya Sai cannot accomplish. (cheers). ****
***you can witness all the countries of the world paying homage to India (Bharatha); you can hear adoration of Sathya Sai's name reverberating throughout the world, ***
I think that all these statements would defeat totally the points you were trying to make.......and finally ....here is one more....
***There have been great avathars in the past. But there were never such achievements in such a short span of fifty years. All these things have been done single-handedly****
I completely agree with the "single hand " bit. I guess he built up the entire empire by learning to conceal objects in his hand and "materialize" them.....
Thanks,
Hari Sampath.
Terrie 1221
07-31-2001 09:24 PM
Ref #1217
Sometimes these QT boards go wide for no reason that we can figure out. Then after a while they go back to a smaller width again. Does anyone know why this happens?
Balaraman Suresh 1220
07-31-2001 08:55 PM
Dear Andries,check this link to update the country India's information.I am sorry there will be no mention of fraudulent Godman Parthi Baba http://members.nbci.com/dipindia/
Hari Sampath 1219
07-31-2001 08:29 PM
Suresh,
>>>As most readers may know, Sri Sathya Sai Baba is probably the most followed spiritual Guru of India, and has a sizeable following in more than a hundred countries<<
Yes, this statement is absolutely true. Please read it in the proper context. Sathya Sai Baba is UNDOUBTEDLY the best known Indian Guru in more than 100 countries. The second best known guru with a good following is probably Ammachi.
There is of course no contradiction in the introductory statement on my website and what I have been posting about Sai Baba's following and acceptance IN INDIA.
As far as overseas people are concerned, certainly Sai Baba and Ammachi are the two widely followed Gurus of India, whereas, within India, Sai Baba is NOT recognized as an authentic spiritual leader by the masses, and certainly NOT as an avatar of Lord Rama or Lord Krishna.
Perhaps the phrasing on the website's statement is slightly ambiguous, and I may need to modify that.
Thanks for the suggestion, and of course no offence taken :-) Hari Sampath.
Balaraman Suresh 1218
07-31-2001 07:40 PM
Dear Hari,"As most readers may know, Sri Sathya Sai Baba is probably the most followed spiritual Guru of
India, and has a sizeable following in more than a hundred countries. " Is there a better way of wording this in your website opening in the main page as i feel very Un- comfortable as to that message.Please consider this as my suggestion no offence meant.
Balaraman Suresh 1217
07-31-2001 07:11 PM
Dear Anthony,has that virus infected our board,because i find the viewing section has gone skewed and i need to use the bottom scroll function.
Balaraman Suresh 1216
07-31-2001 06:50 PM
Dear Andries,Thanks for liking my postings and be rest assured that is the truth nothing but the truth,majority Indian population does not nor accept Parthi Baba as their God.The hindu avataram's are Matsya,Coorma,Varahar,Narasimhar,Vamanar,Parashuraman,Raman,Krishnan,Balaram an,Kalki.Krishnan & Balaraman are twin avataram's.The above are all Shri Vishnu's descent(or shri hari).There is no mention in the Puranam's that Parti Baba is an avatar and that too a triple avatar,keeping in mind shirdi in the past and hasan in the future as lied by Parti Baba to general public.
Hari Sampath 1215
07-31-2001 06:40 PM
Edited by author 07-31-2001 06:45 PM
To Andries: Ref # 1211.
I think Suresh is largely accurate here when he says that the Shankaracharyas are the most popular and widely respected Hindu religious leaders. Sai Baba is considered controversial by a vast majority of Indians, and is certainly not accepted as a spiritual figure at all.
In a predominantly Hindu country with a long tradition of yogis, sidhdhas etc, Sai Baba's "miracles" don't really impress people EVEN if they were genuine, which most people scoff at anyway, in India. This has given Sai Baba an impression of a "cheat", which he certainly is.
But the Indians also are timid by nature in that they will not speak their mind publicly, even if they believe someone to be a fraud, especially "godmen" like Sai Baba.
The Indians being religious by nature, and given to unquestioningly obeying instructions if they come from religious leaders, just imagine what will be the situation if a majority of the country believed/accepted Sai Baba's claim to be Lord Rama and Lord Krishna. ALL of these Indians will flock to his Ashram, and will just live their lives for him. Such is the faith in India in Lord rama and Lord Krishna.
The very fact that even after 75 years , Sai Baba has only about 5-10 million followers, in a country of 1 billion shows that Sai Baba'a claim "I am the avatar" has been rejected by the Indian nation, in a silent manner.
Also, India being a poor country ( I mean lots of poor people) , people do not have the heart to comment on an obvious fraud like Sai Baba because of two reasons. 1) It is considered sinful in India to talk wrong about a person who does charity. 2) At least a few million people are following him and doing seva, why should we comment about him ?
This is the correct picture, and the Truth which I can vouch for as an Indian and a Hindu, from my personal experience and observations from the time I was a Sai Baba devotee and also now as an anti Sai Baba person.
Thanks,
Hari Sampath.
Balaraman Suresh 1214
07-31-2001 06:39 PM
Dear hari,thanks brother for correcting that sanctimonious twerp about immigrating and all that.The love i have for my wife and kids are the main reason that i am in USA apart from the fact that i once dreamed of studying for Master's Degree,but that dream is now hotly pursued by my wife.Never did it occur to me that i myself would fall for this great country and its people.There is so much i have learnt these years by my stay and Terrie is absolutely correct,Parti Baba would have been sent to the electric chair like Timothy McVeigh.I would like to urge you to fight further in this expose of Parti Baba and in any humble manner that i can be of assistance,please let me know.
Hari Sampath 1213
07-31-2001 06:23 PM
To Terrie : ( ref 1210).
I don't mind SB devotees posting on this board with what they belive to be reasons for believing Sai Baba to be god. That is their freedom, and they have a right to disagree with the anti SB people, as well as a right to disbelieve the anti SBs.
What I am very much against is insincere arguments like Sarf's ( of the kind, prove that Mt Everest is not in Germany, prove that there is something called Pacific ocean etc) to block discussions, and also the so called pro SB devotees with an attitude towards a particular group of people ( for eg immigrants, Indians, Buddhists, Westerners, Catholics, or whatever...).
This stereotyping and intimidating tactics are wrong, whoever resorts to them, whether pro or anti sb people. That message # 1196 was disgusting as here was someone telling Suresh (and other immigrants to the US) ," be happy that you are here, get yourself a car, your citizenship etc, better work for the US economy, and don't do things like get involved in controversies , slander etc, meaning don't talk about Sai Baba or else you will not get a status here, and be in trouble" and implying immigrants cannot do certain things that native US citizens can do.
This is totally unacceptable, and Un-American, from all the experiences of Americans I have had, by living in New York, San Francisco and most major cities.
This is the reason, I felt that all these kind of posts (including my responses) are irrelevant to this boardand could be deleted , if Anthony so wishes.
Hari Sampath.
Terrie 1212
07-31-2001 06:19 PM
Edited by author 07-31-2001 06:22 PM
....but I would like to see #1191 and #1192 deleted, which are simply nasty remarks that don't relate to any discussion/satsang. Those two posts sound like they're right off the Yahoo boards.
Andries 1211
07-31-2001 06:01 PM
Dear Suresh, I really liked your posting and was surprised to read that the majority of the Indians has not heard of Parthi Baba. Are you sure? Well, I forgot probably that India is big. I agree with Hari S. that India is almost terra icognita (unknown area) for many westerners. Thanks.
Terrie 1210
07-31-2001 05:55 PM
Edited by author 07-31-2001 06:00 PM
Ref #1107: Hari,
It's for Anthony to decide about deletions, but I don't think it's necessarily irrelevant to show how the pro-sb people (#1196) attempt to frighten ex-devotees who speak about what they know. Then the ex-devotees reply and show that they can't be intimidated. Fear is part of the reason that more people don't speak out in India. That and the love of money and security, it seems.
Suresh, I will be getting the video "Holy Smoke" soon. It's been recommended by others too.
Balaraman Suresh 1209
07-31-2001 05:38 PM
Dear Anthony,Thank you for the welcome.I am enjoying the satsangh of the member's.Please enforce your Patroling,as that is the main reason this makes it nice unlike other yahoo boards where virtually everyone is Yahooligans.
Balaraman Suresh 1208
07-31-2001 03:29 PM
Dear Bhakthan,i apologise for not replying to you sooner.I totally agree with your view points.The slum's in Mumbai,Kolkatta,Chennai,New Delhi,Hyderabad,Bangalore,Kodaikanal, etc the list goes on,has never seen Parti Baba.These are the people whom Mahatma Gandhi referred to as Harijans & Girijans.Forget about such far flung cities of India,take Puttaparthi for example,right outside the gates a row of beggars begging for alms.Westerner's chased by street urchins,is a sight no one can forget.Before Parti Baba decides to philosphise about his gay philosophy he better set his country of birth RIGHT.When his own country men/women cannot accept him as a MESSIAH,why go to the world and preach?.His preachings are nothing but age old wisdom passed down to generation to generation.Please if all get an oppurtunity see the movie, The Holy Smoke,it will be liked by our board members.
Hari Sampath 1207
07-31-2001 03:22 PM
To Terrie :
Anthony (please do delete these posts because they have nothing to do with SB and are totally off topic)
Post # 1196 says this :
>>>We here in the west are not ignorant of the ways of the worl or of India<<
This is a grossly wrong impression. Westerners THINK they know about the world and about India. This is the India they see through the tourist guides, the land of Taj Mahal, mosquitoes,mysticism, polluted atmosphere, corruption everywhere, heat, dust, poverty, massive crowds, and cheats all the way from taxi drivers to godmen.
In fact US nationals (among westerners) are notoriously ill informed about the rest of the world ( and an unwillingess to know too), and it is a well known fact that America is one of the most insular countries in this world.
People traveling out and learning about other cultures and ways of life are indeed very small.
>>No need to lecture. <<
Then he goes on to lecture how a "new immigrant" should behave, and what is good for a new immigrant, ther by displaying his ignorance as well as presumptuousness, apart from hypocrisy.
>>Thanks for your story, but we've heard it all before, thank you. And it's quite a boring tale.. My best advice to any new immigrant is simple: Get a job, buy a car, and contribute to the US economy. If you are planing to become a US citizen, keep a low profile. Don't become associated with contoversy, lawsuits, slander, and the like. These things can work against you later, when you apply for citizenship, and the ins does a background check on you.<<
This is the exception to the warm and friendly Americans that I had mostly encountered. Probably it is a case of the exception proving the rule.
Thanks,
Hari Sampath.
Balaraman Suresh 1206
07-31-2001 03:12 PM
Dear George,I am honored and feel very priviliged,that you consider my posting worthy to be posted in your website.In God i trusted to reveal the true nature of Parti Baba,and he/she did not fail me,so thank you god.Om Om Om.
Terrie 1205
07-31-2001 02:47 PM
Hari, #1196 has two good replies. Maybe Anthony won't want to delete any of the posts. In the past he's left a few pro-devotee posts on the board to show what they sound like.
Anthony 1203
07-31-2001 01:49 PM
In case anyone has any difficulty getting through to this board, it may be the Code Red Virus alert that kicks in Aug 1st! If the net is slow or whatever, we haven't disappeared. Stay with us.
The virus affects Windows NT and Windows 2000 operating systems and exploits a flaw in some Microsoft systems used on Internet Servers.
Balaraman Suresh 1202
07-31-2001 01:49 PM
With reference to post 1199,Thank you for your messages and comforting words.I am the last person to be cowed down by follower's of Eunuch's.Y Dan,has no business to be condecending,but then Parti Baba's influence obviously rubs off on these guy's.The fact is Parti Baba is IMPOTENT to stifle the voices of dissent and self proclaimed spokesperson of that eunuch are products like Y Dan.
With reference to post 1201,Terrie,Thanks a bunch,sure latent memories were triggerred off by all these gay activities,child molestation's of Parti Baba.Yes Terrie,i do relate very well with victim's,but fortunately for me and my sister we have an extraordinary MOM,who took care of it diplomatically.Had it been DAD that i went and complained i am 120% sure,he would have got him killed.
Terrie 1201
07-31-2001 12:51 PM
Edited by author 07-31-2001 01:07 PM
To Suresh: (#1197)
Suresh, my prayers and sympathy go out to you and your sister. May God's light remove any darkness left by your sister's abuse experiences. May she be blessed with inner happiness. You will both deeply feel then the pain of the many victims of Parthi baba's molestations.
We all have our crosses to bear. Perhaps they make us stronger spiritually.
I have no doubt that my daughter will eventually see the light of day and remove herself from the false god's infuence.
You asked if I was a Christian. I am a disciple of Paramahansa Yogananda's line of Gurus. Jesus Christ and Sri Krishna are said to be the spiritual heads of this line and their organization, SRF. Their pictures are always on the temple alters and adorn the alters of disciples.
Like your family, mine is diverse. My family members belong to various Christian denominations.
Balaraman Suresh 1200
07-31-2001 12:45 PM
With reference to post 1196,your very name smacks of dishonesty.But some of the things are very decent advice.Thank you.I have accomplished almost all that you mentioned excepting becoming citizen of USA.As for INS,since when have you been hired by Department of Justice,Department of Labour etc??????
Its my moral obligation to tell my experiances with Parti Baba and prevent unsuspecting western devotees especially American's from falling into the trap and for those who have been trapped by Parti Baba's GAY Philosphies!
Dragonslayer 1199
07-31-2001 12:38 PM
"Saishoot" and "Y Dan" are both alias identities for the one who posts here who calls himself Dr. Siva?? The posts sound the same to me. They have insulting and threatening tones. As a fairly new ex-devotee, I ask, "Why do the sai devotees need to threaten ex-devotees on the boards?
George at Sunrise 1198
07-31-2001 12:26 PM
To Suresh (#1194, 1195) and bhakthan (#1190)
I want to welcome both of you to the board. Your posts are filled with very important information unknown to Westerners. We are going to post your messages on Sunrise today, so the information will be available to everyone in the future. I will post a note on this board as to where your messages will be on Sunrise.
Thank you for joining us here on the board. You both are helping to accelerate the work of the sai expose'.
Balaraman Suresh 1197
07-31-2001 12:20 PM
With reference to your post,A Sparrow>>Thank you for a wonderful letter.
It's always so good to hear
new voices on this board. How about other people in your family? Are they also beginning to question Party (ha ha) Baba's authenticity? <<.
Our house we all were brought up to be highly independent.Each of my sister's have their own spiritual preceptors and so do my brother's.My father breathed his last,and his soul merged with the supreme spiritual guru of Paramacharya of Kanchi at Kanchi itself after having his darshan.Even today my mother is utterly devoted to her birth family guru and equally devoted to the married family guru shirdi sainath maharaj sai baba.My father had the unique distinction of having a Pada Namaskar in Indian Airlines flight in mid air in the aircraft.I pray to the good lord that my younger sister's life be more cheerful and happy,as both of us were victim's of child abuse.
Balaraman Suresh 1195
07-31-2001 11:28 AM
With reference to your post,Terrie>>But didn't anyone consider the fate of the students? Or were no
adults aware that students were being abused and raped? If so, was the money and power around sb more important to them than the virtue and health of their own children??
You must know many Indian families. How would the families react if a child told them he had been raped by sb? As a father (if you are a father), how would you have reacted?<<
Majority of Indians do not even know Parti Baba.Majority of the population do not even know that he has built Schools,Colleges,Hospitals etc.In a minority congregation,and a minority student community,how on earth can you expect miracles to expose will happen?Please do not get offended,but this is the truth.I myself was believing Parti Baba only when i put all the pieces together like a jigsaw puzzle,i got the bigger picture.I questioned,i used my god given talents of viveka(Discrimination),i used my power of communion with the supreme of all supreme gods and i was revealed the truth.
By and large Indian families when they have a situation like what you say would,in majority of the cases brush it off under the carpet,shower the kid with love and affection,try to divert the entire episode as a bad dream,refer it to poorva janma karma.Only a minority will do what Hari Sampath has done,challenge it with Public Interest Litigation.
As for what i would have done(if at all my son had been a victim),i would have bought a Double Barrel Shot Gun and shot Parti Baba's Balls.Pardon me folks,for my language and for my action even though its thought process.
Balaraman Suresh 1194
07-31-2001 11:02 AM
Dear Brother's And Sister's
I wish to thank each and every one of for your messages.I wish to tell especially Western (Ex-)devotees that Parti Baba is not the recongnised spiritual leader of INDIA.In fact majority Indians dont even like this kind of Magical tricks that this man is resorting to.He is the man for the rich people by the rich of the rich people.The true life of India is in the Villages where even today the purity of Rama,Krishna,Durga,Saraswathi,Jesus Christ,Allah,Guru Nanak etc are followed with sincereity and devotion.But most people run up against the wall in the expose of Parti Baba is because they are using the wrong stick to beat him.90% of the work done by Parti Baba is exemplary and is no mean acheivment of sorts for the general public.10% of Parti Baba's work are his personal weakness for Male devotees.It's a no brainner,when you use and try to harness this 10% of the activity of Parti Baba and expect results that you look for.Sometimes,i feel doing things covertly to bring Parti Baba down will yield results.
Dear Terrie
Please remove this from your mind of what you mentioned in your post.The true fact is,The majority Indian population "DO NOT CONSIDER PARTI BABA AS GOD".In the North you have Shankaracharya of Kashi;In the East the Shankaracharya of Puri;In the West the Shankaracharya of Dwaraka;In the South the Shankaracharya of Sringeri.The South has the unique distinction of Shankaracharya of Kanchi,as it is believed that Shankaracharya after establishing all the mutts in the different parts of the country,resided in kanchi and breathed his last and attained MOKSHA there.These acharyas are the Peedathi Pathi's that Parti Baba was talking about in his discourses and ridiculing them.
bhakthan 1190
07-31-2001 08:14 AM
RF1181
Dear suresh and other friends,
It is pertinent to note that valiant efforts have been made in the past -as early as in1965 which continued till 1980 to educate the public on the false claims of sai baba and expose him as a magician claiming godhood .one has only to recall the tireless efforts of abraham kovoor,prof.narasimmiah of bangalore university ,mr.gora , the veteran gandhian.but, the power of money coupled with the mass following which any religious cult generates in india made these efforts to expose baba futile despite several tell tale signs prominent of which was the murders in 1993.-a critical eye of a neutral visitor without any blind faith to whitefield/puttaparthy can easily recognise that this is a well organised movement with vested interests but has gained respectability and accptance amongst innocnt millions by virtue of the " religious and charitable coating" given to the cult and the endless story of "miracles" putout by word and boldly in print. -
The " truth" can be easily realised by the " devotees" if only they decide to ask themselves the question: why the socalled omnipresent god does not walk in the open streets on foot without pomp and spelndour seen in the socalled ashrams and perform his tricks in open air before thousands ofthe poor and penniless Indians who live undr open sky . Will his ashram security open the doorsof whitefield and puttaparthy and allow unfettered access to the ordinary poor Indians who are allowed unrestricted entry in to indian temples .
Anthony 1189
07-31-2001 07:17 AM
Well, much has been happening on this board I see. The main thing I would like to say is for us all to keep in mind that we are all fellow brothers and sisters traveling a path of learning together, striving for greater wisdom and love for each other and all life.
Let us be as gentle, loving, compassionate and caring as we can. Let us continue to take into account that emotions run high and different nationalities have to try and express themselves in English - a foreign language to them. Not an easy task, requiring a lot of skill.
I have seen many long discussions and various viewpoints regarding this.
Good points made by both. Glen's post of 1103 is spot on. Hari - many wise words in 1113 and 1162.
I have tried to allow philosophical discussion on this board (reply to Andries 1119) as I understand that some leeway is required to help those devotees with doubts. However, it can also become quite overwheming and tedious and put people off reading the board.
So keeping the right balance in mind, may I suggest that we lose much of the wordy stuff. let us look over our words before they are posted and see if the point we wish to make is clear and concise. Many times whole passages do not need to be quoted. Let us try really hard to stick to the task at hand, to make the board informative, impactful, short, sharp, interesting and helpful.
No need for slinging matches and they won't be tolerated here.
Sometimes I have been about to delete a useless post and then someone replied to its accusations! I have had to leave the post up then as the answer makes no sense without the original post. I am all for NOT answering stupid, stirring type questions that are obviously from a devotee trying to capture the conversation and use up other people's energy replying to them.
Those devout devotees are simply following the rules taught to them by their master - use up other people's energy!
Welcome to the discussion, Balaraman Suresh.
AS Raman 889
Sounds like you have the wisdom with your questioning, but then perhaps throw it to the wind by deciding you don't really understand and will wait for your guru to make sense of it all.
Re the question of Anti christ. Anti christ has a question mark at the end, does it not?
We are wondering!! Hari's explantion of it being 'against God' is the correct context of its reference on this board.
Dragonslayer 917 Thank you
Terrie 1184
07-31-2001 01:50 AM
Suresh, I am wondering. You said that stories of Parthi babas's homosexual activities have been circulating in India for 25 years. It seems that Indians were blinded by the money and important people around baba.
But didn't anyone consider the fate of the students? Or were no adults aware that students were being abused and raped? If so, was the money and power around sb more important to them than the virtue and health of their own children??
You must know many Indian families. How would the families react if a child told them he had been raped by sb? As a father (if you are a father), how would you have reacted?
It seems that even now, reading a recent letter on Sunrise from a former student, that these ex-students don't want to give up a source of income and business connections by coming out and telling what they know. Money and security before truth and justice and the safety of children?
I believe there is a movement underway in legal and media circles to aid the expose'. Hari Sampath knows more about this than I do.
Dragonslayer 1183
07-31-2001 12:39 AM
Let me also welcome you, Suresh. Your insights and fellowship are greatly appreciated. I also am quite new to this board, and have found it enlightening. I was a devotee for more than 25 years. I especially appreciate the moderator(s) of this board who keep an eagle eye on meaningless and tasteless posts and eliminate them. Thanks.
Also I would like to say to Marswalker that I appreciate your post #1176. I feel the points are important, considering the excuses being given by the followers of the false god.
Dragonslayer
A Sparrow 1182
07-31-2001 12:25 AM
Dear Balaraman Suresh ...
Thank you for a wonderful letter. It's always so good to hear new voices on this board. How about other people in your family? Are they also beginning to question Party (ha ha) Baba's authenticity?
... Sparrow
Balaraman Suresh 1181
07-30-2001 11:51 PM
With reference to your post 1180,Terrie I have been hearing and reading about Parthi Baba's Gay encounter's for almost now 25 years.I did not attach much importance to it because i wanted to hold on to him as my saviour,and quite frankly i was mesmerised by all that materialisations,and the rich and powerful people hobnobbing with him.Personally,i cannot say any one particular incident as the cause of my devotion because my family believed him and so as a member of the family i just joined because thats how it is there.The incidents in june 1993 was a major eye opener for me as it clearly implicated the Parthi Baba's impotence.Prior to that incident it was in Hyderabad,that Doordarshan TV had the footage where Radhakrishnan was handing over the necklace to Parthi Baba.Next day Deccan Chronicle it was headline news.Later this murder's and killing incidents happenned.Parti Baba should have come out in the open and diffused the the situation instead he ran away,which normal person like me also would do the same.This really brought Parthi Baba to very ordinary person level,but then i could not even then accept him as mere mortal so i defended him to all devotees and in fact went one step ahead saying Radhakrishnan deserved to die for he exposed Parthi Baba in Hyderabad.India Today is one of the major magazines in India published in many languages,and when this magazine printed all that sordid details of Parti Baba's nonsensical activities,i saw red.In a flash many things which i had doubted myself about Parthi Baba was now for everyone to see.If you talk to people living in prasanthi nilayam and people in brindavan you will get the feel that not everything is hunky dory as is expected of us to believe.Even those guys don't have welcoming smile on their faces instead as if they look morose and serious,as if Pakistan has bombed us.I also knew Hari sampath and he was into Parthi Baba's core company.In fact thru him also i came to know the validity of the victims and one has to only go and look at all the clubs and read the messages of Said,Hari,Paul,David etc.As the english proverb goes there is no smoke without fire.Definitely Parti Baba has been engaging some of his male devotees to all these un-natural acts,otherwise they are not MAD to come and say things of this nature.Moreover many of the things that these boys say was already written in the Indian Media in Illustrated Weekly too some 25 years back,i think some famous Mr.Singh was the editor.So all these when i started to put like a jigsaw puzzle,Parti Baba turned out to be a super duper fraud.In fact i do not think anybody in the United States Of America would have thought of this kind of Scam at all.To stop Parti Baba,as American can do is to let the televison stations know about all these things.In fact prominent Americans and Indians should join hands and approach the Senator's of Indian Caucasus, and turn the heat on the Indian Govt,especially when the two nations are cosying to each other politically.The time is ripe,please do not expect any legal steps from the Indian side to prevail.Parti Baba has judges,politicians in his side,but,not all.There are even today absolutely honest and upright people in the judiciary and many political parties.The only way to stop Parti Baba's Un-natuaral acts are thru the media like newspapers,television,internet,and above all the WILL OF THE TRUE GOD IN WHOM WE TRUST.
Terrie 1180
07-30-2001 10:37 PM
Edited by author 07-30-2001 10:42 PM
Ref #1179, Suresh,
Thank you for your concern about my daughter. Here in America families are much more independent minded than Indian families. As one ex-devotee mother wrote to me, "We give our children the gift of life and when they are grown, what they do with that gift is their own concern. They are welcome to take that gift of life to heaven or to hell." So I place my daughter in God's hands and go on with any help I can give to the expose'.
Suresh, we would like to hear from you about the event that helped you to move away from sb, and how you came to be an ex-devotee. What, in your opinion, would help to convince other Indian devotees that they are devoted to a false god? Are there discussions on this board that would help to convince Indian devotees to investigate the truth?
One thing that convinced me to become an ex-devotee was reading the diary of the 15 year old California boy who was molested by sb.
It's posted on http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise. You have probably read the boy's story. Some friends knew the boy and his mother very well, and that was an important influence in turning away from sb. So it might be very helpful if Indian victims would join together and speak out about the abuse from Parthi baba.
Balaraman Suresh 1179
07-30-2001 07:23 PM
With reference to your post 1173 ,Terrie>>While you feel you have "come home" to America, I have a daughter who felt she had "come home" to India on her first visit many years ago. Sadly, she is a staunch devotee of Parthi baba and has no wish to return to America. How to convince her that this baba is a fraud god?<<
My deepest sympathies for you especially when you love and adore someone, is totally lost to Parthi Baba.You too were a devotee once,how did you manage to see thru the deception?I am sure the real GOD will listen to your prayer and get your daughter back.If your are a Christian,please visit the Church on every Wednesday,and light a Candle.If you do not like to go to Church,please maintain a seperate place with a picture of your beloved Lord,and do the same ritual.Faith is a personal matter,one day your daughter is bound to see thru the deception,corruption,false teachings,of Parthi Baba and leave him for the ASLI BABA.(True Baba or True Father).But if your daughter loves India for its other beauties and if she has enough money,believe me she can lead a Royal Life.
Terrie 1178
07-30-2001 03:50 PM
Marswalker, AMEN to your post #1176!! I see your posts as exstremely valuable and important, and I don't understand the critcisms from others.
Love,
Terrie
Terrie 1177
07-30-2001 03:46 PM
Edited by author 07-30-2001 03:47 PM
To Suresh:
The post you replied to was incomplete and has been deleted. Please see post #1173. I look forward to reading about your experiences and why you became convinced of the false nature of Parthi baba.
Yes, everyone here...I like that title for sb: Parthi baba. It's benign, but descriptive.
Love,
Terrie (Who must get to work now.)
MarsWalker108 1176
07-30-2001 03:45 PM
Dear All,
I honestly feel that I have been unfarily criticized on this board concerning my take on the KUNDLINI discussion. Lets all remember that we come from different backgrounds and have different opinions. I feel the discussion on kundalini is very important because there ARE devotees who are justifying the molestations. By coincidence, I could not believe all the e-mails I have read today on this subject by interested parties who do not even have time to read our posts! So it IS an important topic in my humble opinion.
I have said many times that I am NOT trying to promote any particular guru.
It just happens that I know more about Yogananda because, not only do I have friends who are direct disciples, but I have participated in SRF activities, read many books about PY etc.
You will notice that I NEVER criticize your particular methods or posts of trying to expose SSB, although I have disagreed them it from time to time.
Love MarsWalker108
Balaraman Suresh 1174
07-30-2001 03:35 PM
Dear Terrie
My Family call me "BABU" ( Prounounce- BA= BAA;BU= BOO) My Friends call me"SURI" (Prounounce- SU=SUE;RI= REE) My name is SURESH (Prounounce- SU as in SUE;RE as in RAY;SH as in SHHHH)
You are all welcome to address me whichever you feel comfortable.
I will post my experiances bit by bit about Parthi Baba and also what made me lose my faith.
:)
Terrie 1173
07-30-2001 03:34 PM
Balaraman Suresh, how would you like us to address you on this board? Such as I am "Terrie."
America is clean and bright (compared to the air quality in India), and has advanced science and technology, and a good justice system, but even more importantly, there are many sincere seekers of God here. That is why so many people mistakingly follow Parthi Baba. (I like that title..."Parthi Baba.") Devotees here think they have found "god on earth."
An Indian lady wrote a few days ago on this board that in India the main concern is security for the future, and no one knows anything about kundalini. And many Indians pay little attention to spiritual matters, though India's spiritual heritage is so great.
While you feel you have "come home" to America, I have a daughter who felt she had "come home" to India on her first visit many years ago. Sadly, she is a staunch devotee of Parthi baba and has no wish to return to America.
How to convince her that this baba is a fraud god?
If this baba lived in America, he would have been in jail and perhaps even executed long ago.
Now I have to sign off the computer and go to work for several hours.
Blessings,
Terrie
Balaraman Suresh 1171
07-30-2001 03:06 PM
Dear Terrie
Thank you for welcoming me.Its like homecoming for me.Presently i reside in USA,and from the moment i set my foot on American Soil,i have fallen in love with the country and its people.There is so much of beauty and sincereity here,i cannot but compare with my country of birth.I pray to god almighty that India too should emulate Americans in the sphere of science and technology,and uphold justice and treat everyone at par.Parthi Baba has committed heinous crimes in the name of Sathya (Truth) Dharma (Justice) Prema (Love) Shanthi (Peace) Ahimsa (Non-Violence).There is no scripture either in Hinduism,Christanity,Islam wherein Sexual Acts are attributed for the welfare of devotees.To my knowledge religion teaches SEX is to take place between Husband and Wife after duly married,and that too in extreme views of Hindus for the very purpose of Pro-creation.Not for recreation as done by Parthi Baba.
MarsWalker108 1170
07-30-2001 02:47 PM
(Continued from #1165 - This discussion began with #1030)
I have talked about Yogananda's take on the kundalini and given possible examples wherein he may have influenced the raising of the kundalini in particular disciples.
The Bhagavad Gita certainly wasn't the only holy scripture studied by Yogananda. He was taught in India for many years by a Jnanavatar (Incarnation of Wisdom), Swami Sri Yukteswar.
However, one can study the lives of other venerable saints regarding this subject. You just do NOT find true venerable gurus or holy men expounding the raising of the kundalini in boys by the oiling of their genitals by the guru, kissing the boys on the mouth, and then asking or forcing the boys to allow the so-called guru to ejaculate in their mouths!!! I challenge anyone to find a holy scripture that does.
Paraphrasing Yogananda, The true guru always sets a STANDARD for those on a lower level of spiritual attainment.
Love, MarsWalker108
Terrie 1169
07-30-2001 02:46 PM
Edited by author 07-30-2001 02:51 PM
Welcome to the discussion, Balaraman Suresh. We look forward to hearing more about your experiences before and after leaving "Parthi Baba." It's nice to have a new name on the board.
Are you writing from India? I am especially happy to see Indian names on the board, because India is the key to exposing Parthi Baba.
Balaraman Suresh 1168
07-30-2001 02:40 PM
Hello Folks
Its as if a huge load is off my chest,when i say Parthi Baba is out of my faith and its impossible for me to accept him as a Spiritual Guide.The incidents on June 6 1993,was the first of many controversial incidents pertaining to Parthi Baba,that led to a series of soul searching on my part.At that time i even defended to one and all that Parthi Baba is like Lord Surya (Sun God) and anybody who go near him will be reduced to ash.But heart of my heart my conscience did not permit me to accept that particular incident as some people are jealous and so these things happen.
After coming to USA,especially the "India Today" expose on Parthi Baba made my faith falter considerably because that magazine is one of the finest in India modelled more like TIME,and has a penchant for constructive reporting.Nevertless i started to browse the internet and in particular sites critical of Parthi Baba.Never did i imagine,that such magnitude of people were involved and the victims are just ordinary devotees like me.I was shattered to say the least.By virtue of other Holy Saints from India i bore my utter confusion with grace and asked forgiveness from GOD,to have followed such a FALSE GUIDE.
In particular,this board,is good as its just in tolerating the postings and deletes the one which are totally irrelevant.I look forward to a heart satisfying satsangh with you all.Thanks and may god bless all.