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pageThis document contains posts 1093-1167 from the Anthony Thomas Quick Topic discussion board. Posts are in reverse order. To follow the conversation, read from bottom to top.
George at Sunrise 1167
07-30-2001 02:39 PM
Marswalker, we're continuing to copy your posts. They will be on Sunrise in a day or two under "Discussion" (Kundalini)
Terrie 1166
07-30-2001 02:31 PM
Welcome back, Anthony! If you get all the posts dumped in your mailbox, there's going to be a big difference between those and what's left on the board. There's been an awful lot of deletions in the last few days.
MarsWalker108 1165
07-30-2001 02:26 PM
(Continued from #1148)
I have talked about how Yogananda may have helped the raising of Kundalini by his touching of the disciple at the POINT BETWEEN THE EYEBROWS. I will now give one example wherein he may have facilitated the raising of the kuundlini at a distance. Although I feel all these points are crucial in our discussion, some people on this board have become uncomfortable with these posts, so will now shorten the discussion.
"It was in 1931 that our Guru went to Salt Lake City and there are beloved President met out Guru for the first time. She tells how she stepped into the lecture hall and how instantly the breadth was sucked from her lungs - again a samadhi, seeing her Guru for the first time." Love, MarsWalker108 (Next post will be my conclusion concening KUNDLINI.)
Anthony 1164
07-30-2001 02:07 PM
Hi everyone.
I have been away for a few days and someone has been handling the board for me in my absence. A very big thank you to them. So many posts!! I haven't had time to read any posts yet, but have downloaded all of them and will now take time to read.
Terrie 1163
07-30-2001 01:52 PM
To Hari: You said,
"My point is that it is impossible to establish that SB is not an avatar merely because teachings appear to be "wrong " or "inconsistent". This would be easily rationalised by these border devotees as "meant for different people at different times".
Again we're talking to ex-devotees and questioning devotees on this board.
If they wanted to do a little research, they'd find that ssb really knows very little about what he's talking about. Sure, the diehard devotees would reationalize, even those who are very familiar with Yogananda's teachings or any other truth teachings.
"Even for these "border devotees'" the contradictions in teachings are nothing new. ALL Sai Baba devotees know SB says diff thinga at diff times, and accept it philosophically."
The border devoteess would have to be open to examining the contradictions.
I was and so were all the other ex-devotees. I for one find the fact that Yogananda can enlighten a person by a light touch on the forehead (rather than on the genitals and using oral sex) a very helpful piece of information.
It shows that sb can't enlighten anybody. Or he would have done so long ago instead of surrouding himself with all kinds of corruption and dishonesty among his followers.
"This is the reason, I am trying to establish the fact that Sai Baba is an ordinary fraud who has become successful.."
But I don't believe that. What ordinary person do you know who could give public darshan twice a day every day of the year for years on end without cracking up? And appear always the same. No one that I know. sb is not an "ordinary fraud." I believe that he's a potent Dark Lord with lots of astral help. And here we disagree, no doubt. There's room for both views.
You've read Anthony's "A very clever setup?" I guess you don't see value in that article? http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise (on the Inner Planes page)
"If factual lies are established where we can show that what Sai Baba says happened COULD NOT have happened, and that he is lying, then I imagine the border line devotees have a greater chance of seeing simple fraudulence that has been caught, and also ulterior motives."
I'd say that discussing both types of lies would be helpful to questioning or ex-devotees. Some devotees feel quite at home with talk of astral planes and lords of light and dark, and some just want to see facts that can be proven. All devotees are not the same.
Terrie
Hari Sampath 1162
07-30-2001 01:30 PM
To Terrie :
>>This board is more for ex-devotees and those who might be thinking of leaving sb. So it's helpful for them to know something about the apparent falsehood of sb's teachings and actions<<
I agree Terrie. My point is that it is impossible to establish that SB is not an avatar merely because teachings appear to be "wrong " or "inconsistent". This would be easily rationalised by these border devotees as "meant for different people at different times".
Even for these "border devotees'" the contradictions in teachings are nothing new. ALL Sai Baba devotees know SB says diff thinga at diff times, and accept it philosophically.
This is the reason, I am trying to establish the fact that Sai Baba is an ordinary fraud who has become successful..
If factual lies are established where we can show that what Sai Baba says happened COULD NOT have happened, and that he is lying, then I imagine the border line devotees have a greater chance of seeing simple fraudulence that has been caught, and also ulterior motives.
This goes a long long way in showing Sai Baba as what he is than long winding arguments of meditation techniques, philosophical positions etc.
Hari Sampath.
Terrie 1161
07-30-2001 01:24 PM
Ref #1158, Hari Sampath,
This board is more for ex-devotees and those who might be thinking of leaving sb. So it's helpful for them to know something about the apparent falsehood of sb's teachings and actions. This board isn't for the "in death I'll go with you" sb devotees.
Anthony, when you have time, please give your view on this discussion.
Hari, if I haven't replied adequately to your questions, let me know.
Hari Sampath 1160
07-30-2001 01:23 PM
To Dr Siva :
>>For a TRUE description of kundalini by SB, including Sampath's ref.of Hislop, <<
Ok, Dr Siva, simple questions:
Are you saying that Sai baba fondles genitals, kisses and has sex with young men to raise their kundalini ?
So do you accept, whatever the reason, Sai Baba does have sexual encounters with young men ?
Hari Sampath
Terrie 1159
07-30-2001 01:18 PM
Dr. S, you said you were leaving this board. Why are you back?
Hari Sampath 1158
07-30-2001 01:17 PM
Dear All,
I agree with Tony.
While we understand that marswalker is trying to point out that Sai Baba's teachings about kundalini are wrong, by illustrating Yogananda's teachings, I have two questions:
1. When Sai Baba devotees are prepared to accept Sai Baba's word that the earth does not go around the Sun, or that the Moon is bigger than the earth or any such ridiculous statement as "Truth" and ask us for "proof" for such facts, how can we expect them to accept SB is a fraud based on "wrong teachings" ?
2. When Sai Baba devotees are even prepared to accept that Sai baba indulges in sex, and kundalini or not, it for the benefit of those victims, how is elaborate explanations on kundalini from Yogananda help ?
Hari Sampath
Dr. Sabapathy Siva 1157
07-30-2001 01:14 PM
For a TRUE description of kundalini by SB, including Sampath's ref.of Hislop, please ref to the chapter 'Kundalini' in 'The compendium of teachings of SSSB' by Charlene Leslie Chaden, pg.293.
Terrie 1152
07-30-2001 12:59 PM
Edited by author 07-30-2001 01:02 PM
Actually Marswalker is showing:
(1) That a true guru can give enlightenment just by a touch on the forehead (rather than messaging the genitals, oral sex, etc.), and
(2) ssb knows nothing about the nature of kundalini or real meditation. Read between the lines, guys. These are very important points to be made in the expose' fight against sb.
Marswalker is not "pushing" Yogananda. He's pointing out disasterous faults in sb's teachings and actions.
Tony O'Clery 1151
07-30-2001 12:52 PM
No offence meant marswalker, but why all this stuff about Yogananda? I have heard the usual negative and positive stories about him also, but what has it to do with sb?
Yogananda was clean yes and sb is a molesting lying pervert but this site is about sb not pushing other gurus. The lesson should have been learned that there is only the 'inner guru'.....Tony.
Cock & Bull 1150
07-30-2001 12:37 PM
I wish someone stops Marswalker posting about Yoganandaji here as it is getting to ridiculous proportins. : ) : )
Terrie 1149
07-30-2001 12:26 PM
Edited by author 07-30-2001 12:29 PM
Re: meditation and focusing on the spiritual eye as the key to enlightenment, in one of the documents cited by Dr. Siva in post #1136, sb is quoted as saying several times that in meditation one should concentrate on the TIP of the nose. This is another example of a false and misleading teaching by sb.
I'll see if I can find that reference later today. Marswalker, you might want to check it out.
In noting the different statements re: kundalini by sb, he's showing that he's just like anyone else who is aging: his memory contradicts itself. I get the impression that he quotes back information that he's been fed a short time before. He remembers it just long enough to give a discourse. And with all the discourses he gives, there's bound to be contradictions over time. There are just too many details to remember.
This is why we see contradictory "facts" in the discourses, such as those involving the two boys (perhaps fictitious) from his younger school days.
These contradictions were pointed out by Hari Sampath. Perhaps the most ridiculous statement of all was that the two boys were re-born as dogs so they could be near sb in this life.
Weren't those two boys discussed on this board? Does anyone have the post numbers? I confess to having an aging memory.
MarsWalker108 1148
07-30-2001 11:47 AM
(Continued from 1147)
"In Seattle in 1924, Guru met Gyanamata who he often talked of as his most advanced woman disciple at that time.... Then she invited Swamaji to her house... She took him to her second floor meditation room, and he was pleased to see a room that ws dedicated to God wdith a picture of Master and other saints... And then by way of blessing, he touched her on the POINT BETWEEN THE EYEBROWS, and she was blessed to go into ecstacy - to hear the great cosmic om vibration just from the touch of the Guru's hand. such was the devotion to her that ever thereafter, she kept that spot sacred in her heart, and she put flowers in a vase at that spot, if it was summertime there would be live flowers, winter time artificial flowers, but there was always flowers at the very spot he gave that ecstacy.
Love, MarsWalker108 (Continued next post)
MarsWalker108 1147
07-30-2001 11:28 AM
Edited by author 07-30-2001 11:34 AM
(Continued from #1108)
A study will show that a true guru or avatar with a world mission may come with advanced disiples to help him with that mission. Evidence of Yogananda helping advanced disiples raise may be given by a talk given by Brother Mokshananda, "Remembrance of the Guru," SRF 1983, Cassette No 2510:
"Yogagnanda came to America in 1920. One of the disiples he met was Dr.
Lewis....Dr. had been blessed in this lifetime to have already experienced the light of the spiritual eye, but he could not find anyone who could tell him about it...Dr. Lewis raised a question. He said, "Sir I see this light sometimes, but no one can explain it to me.....and so the Master Swami Yogananda, as he was called in those days, had Dr. sit on the floor with him on the carpet....They meditated for awile, then the guru pressed his forehead andand the Dr. was blessed with not only seeing the Light of the spiritual eye, but the smadhi of perception of the THOUSAND PEDALED LOTUS brain....
Love, MarsWalker108 (Continued next post)
Hari Sampath 1146
07-30-2001 09:42 AM
Thanks Lucideye,
My HTML is pretty ok, in fact I don't use any tool, but prefer to hand code , I appreciate your help :-)
The thing is, I have left everything technical to Said as I have absolutely no time, and he has to attend to all things on the website for sometime.
Hari Sampath
Lucideye 1145
07-30-2001 08:23 AM
>Hari Sampath, I have a question for you. From your own
>saivictims site you reference a Yahoo site, but not this one.
>But you hang out on this board. How cum'??
>
>It's impossible to read the Yahoo board from your site because
>it comes up in that little window, and then that window is
>divided into frames on Yahoo. I gave up. Can't you fix it so the
>site comes up in a full screen size??
it is possible with simple html.
<a href="http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/sathyasaibabadiscussionclub" target="_blank">GO THERE</a>
love,
lucideye
Lucideye 1144
07-30-2001 08:13 AM
that is:
-GO THERE-
without the hyphens at beginning an end.
Lucideye 1143
07-30-2001 08:07 AM
>Hari Sampath, I have a question for you. From your own
>saivictims site you reference a Yahoo site, but not this one.
>But you hang out on this board. How cum'??
>
>It's impossible to read the Yahoo board from your site because
>it comes up in that little window, and then that window is
>divided into frames on Yahoo. I gave up. Can't you fix it so the
>site comes up in a full screen size??
its is possible with simple html.
GO THERE
for example.
love,
lucideye
replied-to message removed by QT >
Hari Sampath 1141
07-30-2001 12:50 AM
Early Yahoo messages:
The David Lane club degenerated from an inspiring discussion on Sai Baba to a pornographic club because of one person.......no... not the sick lunatic Rkmsr, it was because of David Lane and his idea of "free expresion".
David Lane's idea of "free expression" has a cost attached to it. The total disintegration of the board into a pornographic club. In fact David Lane's "free expression" wasn't that genuine either, because a couple of times he did announce he was going to moderate the board, but obviously didn't have the time to do so.
The result was the club became a useless pornographic club.
Hari Sampath
Terrie 1139
07-29-2001 11:53 PM
Ref #1135: Early Yahoo
I checked out some of those early posts on the Lane board. How did that board go from some wonderful sounding inspiring discussions down to its present pornographic state of complete craziness??? Seriously, how did it happen?
Terrie 1138
07-29-2001 09:36 PM
Ah....I see we may have another potential discussion beginning with Dr S and Hari. Please, for the sake of all of us, keep replies short and to the point and above all, polite. Hari asked two questions "to the point." Now, Dr S, can you reply briefly "to the point?" No running around in circles and asking detouring questions.
Hari Sampath 1137
07-29-2001 09:07 PM
Reply to Dr Siva:
OK, I have read both the links completely. It raises two questions.
1. WHERE has Sai Baba once mentioned that kundalini shakthi can be raised by massaging the genitals, kissing etc ??
2. WHY did Sai Baba tell Hislop that all the stuff about kundalini is false ?
Hari Sampath.
Hari Sampath 1135
07-29-2001 08:22 PM
Dear All,
What we are discussing here was in fact some of the earliest things discussed on David Lane's yahoo board in 1999.
Some of the early discussions are really wonderful , and the 4-5 persons involved raised extremely valid points of discussins, like "If Jesus came " and "what after Sai baba" etc .
The messages first 100 or 200 will even give an insight into how the expose developed at that point. Afshin (la_quake) , myself (delta_108) sainath99, parvarti, and Paul Holbach (p_holbach) were initially active in these discussions, and later David Bailey joined the expose within a couple of weeks, and the Findings was planned .
Love,
Hari Sampath
Terrie 1134
07-29-2001 07:23 PM
Edited by author 07-29-2001 07:26 PM
O.K., Hari, I just bookmarked the club from here. MUCH better! I'll use the link I just made to go to the club from now on.
I couldn't get the club to go to a full size screen from saivictims. I believe that might be a problem linking from a site with frames?
Hari Sampath 1133
07-29-2001 07:18 PM
To Terrie :
Yes, the sathyasaibabadiscussionclub has been linked as the discussion forum.
It is just a link and the page will open up in the right frame. Perhaps you can bookmark the page, and get to it as a full page too.
I do post on this club, which is a moderated board by Afshin (shahgols) , and sometimes I post on the Lane club too (although that club is long gone, and of no use as a discussion forum, we can only use it to post specific information).
I shal, try to set up the link on our site to open up the webpage http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/sathyasaibabadiscussionclub
Thanks, Terrie,
Hari Sampath
Terrie 1131
07-29-2001 07:03 PM
Tony, welcome back. So what is going on in Mexico with the expose'? I heard that Conny Larsson was somewhere in South America.
Terrie 1129
07-29-2001 06:59 PM
Edited by author 07-29-2001 07:01 PM
Hari Sampath, I have a question for you. From your own saivictims site you reference a Yahoo site, but not this one. But you hang out on this board.
How cum'??
It's impossible to read the Yahoo board from your site because it comes up in that little window, and then that window is divided into frames on Yahoo.
I gave up. Can't you fix it so the Yahoo board comes up in a full screen size??
Tony O'Clery 1128
07-29-2001 06:59 PM
Just back from Mexico. Let us not forget that he forces fellation and anal intercourse on minors and others. sb also allows people to waste and misdirect their lives.........
Hari Sampath 1121
07-29-2001 06:38 PM
To Andries:
Yes, recovery has an important place and so does philosophical discussions.
The only reason that I am sticking to practical , focused, business like expose information is that the expose is far from over.
So much needs to be done, and the message taken to millions of people, highlighted in the media, taken to official agencies etc.
I had been doing these activities for at least 2 years just on the internet, and I realise that this has to be sustained. This is targeted at the general public as well as devotees, for whom the news has to be given convincingly.
I think that recovery comes at a later stage, and at this point philosophy alone will help. For some, this may have already started, but combining recovery and expose will certainly lead to tangles.
Thank you,
Hari Sampath
George at Sunrise 1120
07-29-2001 06:36 PM
To Marswalker: We have copied all your posts, the latest being #1008. We will put them together as one document on Sunrise, along with any others you send us. Many thanks for your research here. It's time we all learned a little more about what the spiritual masters say on kundalini.
If anyone else on this board has a Guru who has talked about Kundalini, Sunrise will be happy to put quotes from literature on the kundalini discussion page.
Why is this topic important? Because the pro-devotees use the raising of kundalini as a stock explanation for the molestation of hundreds or thousands of boys and young men. This is why Sunrise will archive kundalini messages.
If India had been less ignorant of kundalini, the sai org would not have been able to use the kundalini excuse to shield the greatest child abuser of all time.
Andries 1119
07-29-2001 06:29 PM
Ref 1111 Dear Anthony,
If this is a place for a recovery then there should be some room for philosophical exchange.
I can understand fully that Hari and others don't want any off top philosophy on this board but only want to see business like postings regarding the expose.
Should there be another board for recovery?
It's up to you to decide.
Thanks. Andries
Andries 1117
07-29-2001 06:09 PM
Dear Cock & Bull,
Can you ask the Shirdi Sai organization to issue an official warning against
SSB and other present and future con reincarnations of Shirdi Sai?
There is every reason to do so because Shirdi Sai himself said that he would be active from his TOMB i.e. not in a future reincarnation.
Thanks in advance. Andries K.D.
George at Sunrise 1116
07-29-2001 06:04 PM
Ref #1114: Richard????
Terrie 1115
07-29-2001 06:01 PM
....and Hari, your posts are getting a bit long-winded too. So are mine.
Let's try harder to limit our thoughts to shorter posts. I start to get bleary-eyed if a post is longer than one computer screen.
Hari Sampath 1114
07-29-2001 06:00 PM
Dear Richard :
>>I believe that Marswalker is trying to show that, although most modern Indians know nothing about kundalini, at least one great modern master has shown its importance<<
I agree that kundalini has been discussed by yogananda. But my question is , in what way is it connected to Sai Baba ? Only so far as the sexual molestations go and the "SB devotees" explanation. It is in that context it should be discussed, which is what I had done.
My only point is, this raja yoga-kundalini-yoagananda topics, by themselves are not relevant to Sai baba and this board, but probably have a place elsewhere. ONLY in Sai baba related context would they have any significance on this board.
Thanks,
Hari Sampath
George at Sunrise 1113
07-29-2001 05:49 PM
Edited by author 07-29-2001 05:51 PM
Re: the discussion of Raja yoga and kundalini by Marswalker:
I believe that Marswalker is trying to show that, although most modern Indians know nothing about kundalini, at least one great modern master has shown its importance.
However, Marswalker's posts can be entered instead permanently on Sunrise, since the point regarding ssb and kundalini has already been made on this board: ssb says that kundalini is "just big talk and ego." (in direct conversation with Hislop)
Marswalker, if you e-mail any further posts on this topic to Sunrise, we will post them on the Discussion page along with the other recent posts from this board on kundalini- including your earlier posts on the subject.
The kundalini topic came and went quickly, but reached an illustrious conclusion.
Also, the exchange on Christianity came to a good conclusion. That will be posted on the Discussion page also. Give us a day or two.
Marswalker, if Anthony decides to delete you posts, please don't take offence. They will be archived permanently on Sunrise. We're going to copy them off the board now. Your point is very well made that according to Yogananda, kundalini is a very real concept and is related to spiritual development.
Deletion #1109 1112
07-29-2001 05:26 PM
Please see Glen Meloy's post #1103 and Terrie's post #1110. Pro-devotees who have no intention of changing their views may post on other boards. We wish you well, but please don't use our time here.
Hari Sampath 1111
07-29-2001 05:25 PM
Edited by author 07-29-2001 05:28 PM
To Anthony, marswalker and all :
Please do not allow this board to degenerate into senseless arguments of the kind that sarf inspires (and I respond to :-) ) , and also do not turn this into a Yogananda raja yoga discussion.
I for one, have no time to discuss different gurus, their philosophies etc.
when we are discussing "Sai Baba: anti Christ"
Each person may have their own Guru, and if that is allowed for discussions here, just imagine what happens.
I shall post long messages on Visishta Advaitha. Someone else would post long messages about Buddhisim, Islam, Christianity etc.... so where does that leave us.
Even the ridiculous arguments by sarf were at least directly related to Sai Baba , his lies, and we showing that Sai Baba is lying, and also highlighting the "staunch devotee" syndrome, which will make "normal devotees" sit up and take notice.
What purpose is served by turning this board into a "philosophical discussion" board.
Sai baba deevotees CANNOT be convinced that he is a fraud by we establishing that what Sai Baba said about meditation was not accurate or the focus should be the tip of the nose, or the center of the heart etc.
When they are rationalising Univeraslly accepted Days and Dates are wrong and Sai Baba is right, what else we can hope for ?
What I was trying to establish to sarf ( and to other devs) was perfectly legitimate.
If Sai Baba says that today July 29th 2001 is a Monday, and if "staunch devotees" say, " it is probably Monday in Puttaparthi and still it is July 29th" , then it serves to highlight to the "normal devotees" how far away from sanity they have "progressed".
These arguments, while a little heated, serve the purposes of the anti sb- pro sb discussions a lot more than any "debate" on philosophy .
Even molestation testimonies etc will be refuted by the devotees saying that it could be lies, and they are subjective from a devotees' view point.
Reincarnation theories etc will be taken in a diff perspective.
What will eventually prove that SB is a fake is to prove that he is dishonest, and to prove it factually, and to prove it irrefutably.
This is what I had done.
I pulled out his "most famous divinity declaration" incident and have proved factually that the whole thing is a lie, a damned lie. I have proved that the events of October 20th 1940 were concoted and NEVER took place, by universally available facts and Sai Baba's own words.
If Sai Baba devotees of the Sarf type are pathetically running away from the argument, then it proves that this issue is their zone of discomfort. Why don't ex devotes on this board ask Sarf to answer the questiuons I raised ?
These sarf types will "be nice" and "polite" as long as philosophy is discussed , because that poses no threat to them and their "SB faiths", but when cornered factually, they begin to hiss, and resort to irrational behavior.
This was the whole purpose of the exercise by me.
Thank you,
Hari Sampath
Terrie 1110
07-29-2001 05:18 PM
Edited by author 07-29-2001 05:19 PM
Ref #1103 Glen said,
"as former devotees...(we should not)...respond to specious remarks or bogus questions from pro-devotees who obviously have not taken the time to read the plethora of resignation letters, media stories and molestation testimonies.
"If a pro-devotee is not willing to spend the time to read about and/or contact molestation victims, they obviously have a very closed mind and their questions most often do not reflect a genuine desire to learn the truth.
"Quite simply, they are not ready.......and it is a waste of the most precious gift any of us will ever receive - our time on this earth.... to engage in these fruitless discussions." ------------------------------
And that says it all Glen. I as well as others have been caught in useless discussions on bogus questions with pro-devotees. Let's see if we all can't do better. We should not be responding to these arguments. TIME: the most precious of all commodities.
Love,
Terrie
07-29-2001 04:56 PM
(Continued from #1105)
On page 424 we may have a hint of the true meaning of Raja Yogi:
......"Ascension follows in reverse the exact course of descension. In man that course is the inner highway to the infinite, the only route to divine union for followers of all religions in all ages. By whatever bypath of beliefs or practices a being reaches that singular highway, the final ascension from body consciousness to Spirit is the same for everyone; the withdrawal of life and consciousness from the senses upward through the gates of light in the subtle cerebrospinal centers, dissolving the consciousness of matter into life force, life force into mind, mind into soul, and soul into Spirit. The method of ascension is Raja Yoga, the eternal science that has been integral in creation from its inception." Love, MarsWalker108 (Continued next post) Andries 1107
07-29-2001 04:37 PM
Re: Sarf discussion
Imo Sarf has been very reasonable in the discussion about Yogananda and miracles but that was hardly related to SSB.
Sometimes a few kind words may help more than a world of logic when people are in danger of losing their crutch.
Sarf, please feel free to email me.
AndriesKrugersDagneaux@hetnet.nl
Cock & Bull 1106
07-29-2001 04:37 PM
Marswalker
If at all comparison should be made for Gas Raju it should be with Shirdi Sai Baba,in my opinion,not Yoganandaji.As Gas Raju proclaims he is reincarnated version of Shirdi Sai Baba.
For the benefits of fellow/sister member's of the board http://www.shirdisai.org
Can be accessed for interested people.
MarsWalker108 1105
07-29-2001 04:28 PM
(Continued from #1040)
One page 372 Yogananda talks about the descending and ascending "wheel of life." I want to include an extract here with the secondary purpose of showing that PY did acknowledge others paths to God besides Kriya Yoga.
"The purpose of life is to ascend the six spinal centers, reinforcing the human consciousness progressively with greater and greater lights, until it is able to unite with the all pervading, thousand-rayed brilliance in the highest center in the brain. This ascent of consciousness through the spine may be achieved slowly through right actions and right thoughts. The yogi, however, chooses the quicker and more scientific method of meditation."
P 373: The internal consciousness of ordinary people operates only from the lumbar, sacral, and coccygeal centers that direct all material sensory perceptions and enjoyments. The divine lovers and celestial poets work from the heart center. The calm unshaken yogi operates from the cervical center.
He who can feel his presence in the entire vibratory creation has awakened the medullary and Christ centers. The illumined yogi functions in the cerbral center of Cosmic Consciousness; he may be spoken of as anascended yogi."
Love, MarsWalker108 (Continued on next post)
Cock & Bull 1104
07-29-2001 04:08 PM
I think Surf or Rin ,posted that to the effect that Tamils are up against Gas Raju.Raju has been Gassing so much one of these days by virtue of his own gassing he will explode.Anyway,Mr.Covoor was the first Sri Lankan to spearhead a campaign against Gas Raju,and Challenged Gas Raju to materialise "A PUMPKIN" in his palm.
Till this date Gas Raju has never ever produced anything bigger than his palm can hold.Top political leaders are vying with one another for the simple reason of Hawala Transaction that Gas Raju has been doing keeping his Trust as fronts.
V.Prabhakaran is a Sri lankan,who immigrated to Vancouver Canada.To assume that it is LTTE shows how paronoid Gas Raju devotees are.Gas Raju is conducting a spiritual entertainment center and he is hero,magician,director,side kicks,plus the heroine too as Gas Raju proclaims he is shakthi and shiva.
Prof. Narasimhaiah is not a Tamilian. Just to name one individual from eminent
people of Bangalore who are trying to expose this Gas Raju.
Glen 1103
07-29-2001 02:44 PM
Dear Former Devotees, Devotees, Friends and Supporters of Truth and Goodness,
At this point in the expose', I feel these long winded wordy back and forth debates and arguments do not serve a useful purpose and are very non-productive.
It's time to quit chasing windmills.
Now is the time to focus on posing and answering only legitimate questions and inquiries.
Beyond that, we need to make sure that all the really helpful information about the expose' is referenced, posted and organized on the various websites in such a way that it can easily be retrieved for research, media, government and law enforcement purposes.
Sincere people on both sides of the fence should be able to intelligently communicate with each other. but there should be some ground rules to prevent the type of chaos we often see on the unmoderated sites.
One way to accomplish that is to make sure that as former devotees, we do not respond to specious remarks or bogus questions from pro-devotees who obviously have not taken the time to read the plethora of resignation letters, media stories and molestation testimonies.
If a pro-devotee is not willing to spend the time to read about and/or contact molestation victims, they obviously have a very closed mind and their questions most often do not reflect a genuine desire to learn the truth.
Quite simply, they are not ready.......and it is a waste of the most precious gift any of us will ever receive - our time on this earth.... to engage in these fruitless discussions.
Yes, we too once had closed minds. Many of us refused to read Tal Brooke's book and even after hearing about so called healing genital oilings, many of us still didn't wake up.
Part of the responsibility for our ignorance has to fall upon the so called leaders of the ssb organization who have failed all the members by conspiring to cover up these serious criminal allegations for over 40 years.
So, until the various governments take action to post travel warnings, it becomes our duty to warn the unsuspecting devotees. Do not be decieved into thinking that the vast majority of devotees know about these molestations.
That is simply not true.
When members stop attending center functions, their friends often learn for the first time why they are no longer coming to the weekly meetings. But this happens on an individual basis and I have heard of no center where they are even allowed to discuss these matters.
Yes, there are those few brave souls who raise the issue, but they are quickly hushed up and not allowed to turn it into a center discussion.
Even when Goldstein holds a Regional meeting, the questions are written out on cards and then they are censored and not answered.
It's a major cover up and we now have written proof that Hislop, Goldtsein, Beyer, Krystal and others inner sanctum members knew of these molestations in 1980, even befoire Conny Larsson broached the subject to Hislop in 1983.
Fortunately because of the very early persistence of Afshin Khorramshagol, David Bailey and all the molestation victims mentioned in "The Findings" the foundation was put in place to really focus the spotlight of truth on the duplicitous phony avatar.
Ours is a noble cause and if each of us follows our heart and speaks the truth, we will triumph over the forces of evil and darkness.
For Love, Truth and Goodness,
Glen Meloy .
Terrie 1102
07-29-2001 02:41 PM
Ref #1087 Hari Sampath,
It's their sanity that ssb devotees are trying to save now. They're very, very, very desperate. What will happen when they all "see" at once what the real nature of ssb is? Utter chaos and misery.
Terrie 1101
07-29-2001 01:01 PM
Sad to say, Hari Sampath's post #1087 does give an accurate picture of the mind of a ssb devotee. Perhaps sarf is an extreme case, but I've seen the same pattern of illogic and contradictions a million times. I don't even exempt myself during the time I was a devotee. Something happens to the normal logical brain functions. ssb devotees get totally screwed up mental processes. Like I said, I don't even exempt my (past) self.
Terrie 1100
07-29-2001 12:22 PM
Edited by author 07-29-2001 12:34 PM
Ref 1096, Questor,
Oh, sarf is "Bon Giovanni?" I think somewhere Glen Meloy also suggested that. BG was before my time (before getting involved in the expose). "sarf" has got to be the ugliest "name" I've ever heard. It calls up pictures of a hairy hedgehog in my mind.
Please notice I'm commenting on the sound of an alias name, not the person who chose that name. Though one might wonder about the subconscious reasons for the choice.
Deletions 1099
07-29-2001 12:09 PM
Edited by author 07-29-2001 12:14 PM
Most of the "discussion" between sarf and Hari Sampath has been deleted. A few posts were left to indicate what the deleted posts were all about. The deletions were late in coming. The board moderator can't stay awake 24 hours a day.
sarf, expect your posts here to be deleted in the future. Regulars on this board would like you to go elsewhere. We're not here to argue with staunch ssb devotees. We're here to give support and help to ex-devotees or questioning devotees.
Terrie 1098
07-29-2001 11:43 AM
Edited by author 07-29-2001 11:57 AM
Ref: 1097 Questor, you said,
"I just think this sarf character is a supreme time waster,
We may have our differences of opinion, Questor, but we agree on this one.
Conversations with sarf help to destroy the board. Maybe we need some deletions....
Hari, you're too intelligent to get caught in the trap of useless discussion with sarf. He will not and cannot be the least bit logical or clear thinking. Arugments with sarf only detract from the purpose of this board.
None of us should waste any more time on sarf. Sarf, please take your posts to another board.
Questor 1097
07-29-2001 08:48 AM
Just to add to my last comments, I want to tell you I used to enjoy coming to this board, and I can't even go through it any more. There is just too much nonsense.
No offense to Hari and all the ex-devs and the reasonable devs. I just think this sarf character is a supreme time waster, as he has been everywhere he appears. He needs to be dealt with elsewhere. This board was not designed for this type of exchange.
Go somewhere else sarf. you are a buster.
-Q
Questor 1096
07-29-2001 08:15 AM
Anthony, I know you are trying to be democratic, and allowing debate to go on for that reason, and of course I appreciate Hari's responses, but I think Sarf has worn out his welcome and this debate should be on the other boards.
Here we had some controversy but a more supportive board. Hopefully I speak for others in saying that this guy is taking up too much time. I can't see the response to things I have posted because going back takes too much time.
Following threads is impossible.
This is just not the place for Bon Giovanni. Can't we just boot him. He is just a chronic irritation. I don't even think it is worth your time, Hari, to respond to his nonsense.
Please!!!
-Questor
Hari Sampath 1095
07-29-2001 06:19 AM
Andris :
Where is the "insult" you speak of ?
Do you think that when I post messages to so called "SB devotees", I deliberately indulge in "contempt" or "insult".
Everyone can see that the so called "SB devotees" are simply taking a position of "ok-you-prove-but-I-will-not agree".
What do you mean by "my inability to convince SB devotees" and my "frustrations" ?
It is as plain as daylight as to what is happening here.
I have no intention of being "kind and patient" beyond all human limits of kndness and patience, when someone like this Sarf is ridiculously denying that "one plus one is two", and asking for "proof".
This is NOT your average , proof seeking "SB devotee".
I have no necessity to be judged by you as to whether what I post is "insulting" or not "kind enough" by your standards.
You maintain your own standards, and if you find it necessary, just delete my posts or block me from posting.
What is your definition of "kind and patient" when I have successively posted whatever information that Sarf asked, and he/she/it keeps asking for something else to grasp.
If you cannot see what is happening, I would be unable to enlighten you, and nor is that my intention.
Thanks,
Hari Sampath
Andries 1093
07-29-2001 05:55 AM
Ref 1090
Dear Hari,
Why is it necessary to write with contempt about SSB devotees? Can't you be more patient and kind? Of course I can imagine you get frustrated by your inability to convince devotees but that's not an excuse for your insulting postings.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth is no excuse in this delicate matter.
I can get convicted if I did it because it's forbidden in the Netherlands.
Thanks. Andries K.D.
_________