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pageThis document contains posts 981-1013 from the Anthony Thomas Quick Topic discussion board. Posts are in reverse order. To follow the conversation, read from bottom to top.
Hari Sampath 1013
07-28-2001 04:33 AM
Jesus Christ and His statement :
Although I am not that well versed in Christian scriptures and the sayings of Jesus, I had tried to understand the implication behind the statement of Jesus Christ that "He was the ONLY way".
As a Hindu, I can only try to understand ALL religious thoughts as leading to the SAME goal : GOD , as this is what genuine Hindu thought teaches.
Given this fact, and analysing the statement of Jesus Christ, it appears to me that a couple of things need to be borne in mind.
1. Jesus Christ basically assumed a role of a Teacher, who was established in Knowledge and Consciousness of the Almighty God whom he called The Father, and rightly so.
2. Jesus prescribed a certain code of values, and a set of principles to be followed in daily life, based on the faith men need to have in spiritual values, which are assumed to be God ordained, and attested to by the acceptance at an inner level for each individual of these principles.
3. When Jesus says "Me" I would like to assume he means his teachings, his Truth and what he stood for, with relation to Spiritual Truth.
4. Considering the fact that Jesus was preaching a way of life based on Truth , peace, Love and right conduct, with an emphasis on forgiving, and not sinning, we may assume that He meant "This is the only way", which it is in reality.
5. Jesus also realised , recognized and propounded the entirely valid principle that it is impossible for any human being to "reach the goal", unless there is guidance from someone who HAS reached and SEEN the Goal himself. This, probably , in Jesus' view was the ONLY way.
6. As Jesus was the ONLY Realised being/messiah/Teacher at that time, and also as He probably did not want His followers to get confused, He simply told them "I am the ONLY way". He actually would have meant "A spiritually realised Teacher is the ONLY way you can reach God, if you follow his teachings, there is NO other way".
This would NOT mean that Jesus would have implied that God cannot be reached through Krishna, Buddha etc... Jesus simply did not think it necessary to confuse His followers, and also sought to inspire confidence in them.
The same principle of teacher/Acharya can be found in Hinduism as well, in several orthodox schools of Hinduism, it is said that a Teacher is absolutely necessary.
Even in The Gita, Lord Sri Krishna says " Sarva Dharmaan parithyajya , maam ekam charanam vraja...." meaning, "renunciating all your dharmas, take surrender at MY FEET ALONE.... "
Does this mean that Lord Sri Krishna meant "there is no other way except me.... and all others are false " ?? certainly not.
All narrow interpretations of Incarnations and spiritual masters' statements are probably a result of later day commentators and interpretors , who weave it all into religion, and hence have to maintain the "uniqueness" of their path.
The Spirit of the word is as important as the letter of the word.
Hari Sampath.
Andries 1012
07-28-2001 03:40 AM
Ref 1008, 1010 Re: Jesus, the only way
Dear Sarf, George at Sunrise, Terrie,
In the Netherlands even some Christians from conservative groups like the Salvation Army don't believe anymore that Jesus is the only way. I read this in a newspaper interview in 'Trouw' dated 21 July 2001 with a prominent person from this group. I have heard this from many other Christians too but not from all. Fundamentalist Christianity is rare here when compared with the USA. Personally I believe in the classic Hindu rejoinder to Christianity that if God is love He can't be partial.
Terrie, I take no offense at all when you refer to Yogananda so often.
People who don't want to go thru the mincer of yet another painful cultic experience may want to check this website before joining another religious group. The website is from a Christian perspective. Michelle Goldberg's Salon article about SSB has already been included in the index.
http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/
>From conversion and convergence to disbelief and divergence. The motto for filling up the void?
Kind regards, Andries K.D.
Terrie 1011
07-28-2001 02:41 AM
IN ONE SWIFT STROKE OF THE KEYBOARD BY HARI SAMPATH, the sai org defense of the criminal molestation of boys and young men by ssb has been smashed to pieces. Check out MESSAGE 1000, which has already gone off the main page of this board.
With joy and laughter, I thank the Divinity in the Universe.
Let's see where the sai org goes from here.
Here in the U.S. it's time for a good night's sleep. What's left of the night, that is. Good night all. God has made our day.
George at Sunrise 1010
07-28-2001 02:27 AM
Sarf: Message #1008 Your quote from the Christian bible: "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; No one comes to the Father except through me"
Another key number--1008--and a key question. I want to craft a good reply to your question about this biblical quote. Check this board tomorrow.
(tomorrow in the U.S.)
sarf 1009
07-28-2001 02:10 AM
There is a Sai devotee named Goel who has written a book about kundalini and the third eye.
sarf 1008
07-28-2001 02:07 AM
George, you are a very unorthodox 'christian' indeed. And a very tiny minority in christendom. What you are saying contradicts the oft-quoted dogma of mainstream christians that Jesus is the ONLY way to God, based on the following verse from the New Testament:
"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; No one comes to the Father except through me"
Dont you believe in the words of the only Son of God?
George at Sunrise 1007
07-28-2001 02:04 AM
Edited by author 07-28-2001 02:13 AM
SAI BABA AND KUNDALINI: It will be IN LIGHTS on Sunrise tomorrow. Do you all realize what a BREAKTHROUGH this is??!!
Hari Sampath 1006
07-28-2001 02:03 AM
To Sa....
Well, 1000 is significant ....
sahasra seepurushaha.......
( Thousand-headed is Purusa, thousand-eyed, thousand-footed. Having covered the earth on all sides, he stood above it the width of ten fingers.)
>From the Rig Veda.
Terrie, you are right, 1000 IS significant :-) Hari Sampath
George at Sunrise 1005
07-28-2001 02:01 AM
Sarf, you posted (#1001)
"George, a christian by definition is someone who believes Jesus is the Only Son of God and the ONLY way to God. There is no room for Krishna, or Yogananda or Kriya Yoga in christianity."
This is not true, sarf. This is the party line of hard core fundamentalist Christians. Most Christians I know including ministers and priests and laymen believe that God is One, no matter what form He is worshipped as.
A few years ago the Episcapal bishop of San Francsico set up a religions initiative whose purpose was to bring together Christians, Muslims, Hindus and members of other religions to work together and learn to appreciate each other's faith.
"Is Anthony also a member of SRF like you, Terrie, Marswalker...?"
I sincerely doubt it.
"Are you all representative of SRF thinking on this issue?"
What issue do you mean?
"Are you seeking to catch Sai ex-devotees on the rebound?"
(Laughter) Like Hari Sampath says, I believe that each person has his or her own path.
sarf 1004
07-28-2001 01:50 AM
Where did you get the idea that the number 1000 is spiritually significant?
Try 1008.
Terrie 1003
07-28-2001 01:47 AM
Edited by author 07-28-2001 01:48 AM
Ref #1000 sai baba and kundalini:
WOW!!! SAI BABA SAYS THERE IS NO KUNDALINI!!! He's all modern Indian after all!
Thanks for the quotes, Hari. So what is the sai org going to say with all its talk about ssb raising kundalini???!!!
Hari, you have the honor of posting message 1000 with perhaps the most important sai quote of all time. This has got to be the Divine Hand in action.
Love,
Terrie
sarf 1002
07-28-2001 01:44 AM
"Yogananda's Raja Yoga path is the combination of all the paths mentioned in the Gita." (Terrie)
Thats ridiculous. Yogananda is claiming superiority to Krishna.
sarf 1001
07-28-2001 01:39 AM
George, a christian by definition is someone who believes Jesus is the Only Son of God and the ONLY way to God. There is no room for Krishna, or Yogananda or Kriya Yoga in christianity. I dont see Tal Brooke in this board.
Hari Sampath 1000
07-28-2001 01:38 AM
To Terrie and others:
SAI BABA AND KUNDALINI :
Terrie, since you specifically asked if kundalini awakening was being done by Sai Baba to the young men whom he sexually touches, here are Sai Baba's positions on the kundalini concept :
******************************
>From "Conversations with Sathya Sai Baba: John Hislop"
Page 134..
Sai : Kundalini shakthi is balance in mind and action.
Hislop: But Swami, kundalini yoga is supposed to mean the kundalini power rising up the spine
Sai : That is not real. It is just speeches. People claim this happening and boast about it. It is big ego.
Hislop : Does Swami mean that there is no kundalini power or energy that starts at the base of the spine and rises up the spine ?
Sai : There is no such thing. That is just big talk and big ego
Page 139....
Hislop :But Swami, how about the idea that the snake of kundalini awakens at the base of the spine and awakens each chakra as it rises up ?
Sai : That energy is prana. It is imagined as rising up the spine by the practice of pranayama. The practice of pranayama is dangerous unless all circumstances are exactly correct. It is not necessary and Swami advises aginst it.
***************************
It appears that even Sai Baba doesn't really contribute to the concept of kundalini, and in fact seems to completely disagree that the kundalini power rises up the spine etc... he even says he doesn't advise pranayama for awakening kundalini.
When this is the case, how can Sai Baba devotees claim that Sai Baba is raising "kundalini" of the young men he has sex with ??
These statements of Sai Baba himself rule out this explanation from the SB devotees !!
Hari Sampath
Terrie 999
07-28-2001 01:37 AM
Edited by author 07-28-2001 01:39 AM
Ref #993: Hari Sampath, you said,
"If Yogananda has interpreted the entire Bhagavad Gita only in terms of Raja Yoga, of which Kriya Yoga is ONE part, then we may safely conclude that not only did Yogananda accept some aspect of the Gita as gospel, he accepted the factual validity of the giver of the Gita, Lord Sri Krishna."
Of course, Hari!! It's accepted in Yogananda's organization that Krishna (and Christ) are the spiritual heads of the yogic path taught by Yogananda.
On any SRF alter right in the center is a painting of Krishna (and Christ).
Yogananda said that Krishna was the Christ of India and Jesus the Christ of the west.
Yogananda's Raja Yoga path is the combination of all the paths mentioned in the Gita. Did you know he authored a large Gita translation and commentary, "God Talks with Arjuna?"
"God" Meaning Bhagavan Lord Krishna.
Glen Meloy 998
07-28-2001 01:36 AM
Dear Steady Sevak 007 (Post # 941)
You stated..
<<<<Bhagavan,did kundalini.He did what is best interest for both of them.For the children it appears as sex act.Any child will feel like that,intimidated,if you project it that way.God ways are mysterious,you know. Please provide with name ,telphone numbers,address,emails id to initiate investigation>>>>.
Am I correct in assuming that you are making a sincere request to read about and communicate with the victims?
If so, I suggest that you first go to
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/links.htm
Then please read all the individual molestation testimonies, the Bailey Findings etc. and check out the International Pipeline which will lead you to many more sites that have extensive testimony from the molestation victims, some of which may give their names, email address and even phone numbers.
When you have done all that and have decided exactly which of the victims you want to contact because you are SINCERELY interested in learning the truth about their experiences , E-mail
me a letter < yesontruth@earthlink.net> with your real name, tell me who you are and and I will do my best to confidentially make some recommendations and to assist you in making contact..
For Love, Truth and Goodness,
Glen Meloy
Terrie 996
07-28-2001 01:21 AM
Edited by author 07-28-2001 01:22 AM
Ref #993: Hari Sampath, you wrote:
"Terrie, IF Yogananda really asks his follower to "get devotion", I would like to ask devotion to what/whom ?"
Dear Hari, to GOD! Who else? The male God of Christians or India's Divine Mother. Krishna. Mother Kali. It's up to you.
I myself choose the Divine Mother.
Love,
Terrie
George at Sunrise 994
07-28-2001 01:06 AM
Edited by author 07-28-2001 01:10 AM
Ref: #988 To sarf,
I am a church-going Christian (not fundamentalist), and I designed the Sunrise expose' site. So you will have to toss your theory out about no Christians claiming that sb is an anti-christ. I think by "anti-christ" Anthony means a force of evil in the world that will direct people away from God rather than TO God. This is the definition I'd give to "anti-christ."
I also accept that Krishna and Christ together head up the SRF organization.
(Yogananda's organization) I am an older male ex-devotee (25+ years as a devotee).
P.S. You forgot about Tal Brooke, who's now a born-again Christian. He will shout from the rooftops that sb is an anti-christ.
Hari Sampath 993
07-28-2001 01:02 AM
To Terrie:
>>Please...I didn't say you were spiritually ignorant. I said or meant to say that you did not seem to be aware of the time honored Indian teachings regarding kundalini. <<
You said that I am ignorant of Indian Heritage which includes kundalini.
I said that Indian heritage does NOT give as respectable a place to this kundalini concept as westerners seem to believe. I stated my personal opinion that I believe that all this "kundalini related spirituality" is crap, an opinion that is shared and reflected by most serious Indian Spiritual masters of the last 15 centuries.
I also acknowledged that kundalini yoga DOES raise certain chakras , even leading to certain siddhis, but again, I restated my personal belief that this is not really "healthy".
>>You are sounding awfully dogmatic here. You disagree with Yogananda's line of gurus, which is your perogative. The only reason I cite Yogananda is because that's where my own personal experience is. He has interpreted the entire Gita in terms of spiritual development via Raja Yoga, of which Kriya yoga (related to kundalini) is a part. <<
Disagreeing with Yogananda doesn't make me dogmatic. I fully concede that as your spiritual path has been influenced by the teachings of Yogananda, you would tend to look upon spirituality from that perspective, which is perfectly fine by me.
If Yogananda has interpreted the entire Bhagavad Gita only in terms of Raja Yoga, of which Kriya Yoga is ONE part, then we may safely conclude that not only did Yogananda accept some aspect of the Gita as gospel, he accepted the factual validity of the giver of the Gita, Lord Sri Krishna.
Here it must be remembered that Lord Sri Krishna, in The Gita, lays out various paths like Karma yoga, Raja yoga, Bhakthi yoga etc. This is the Universality of the Gita.
To merely interpret The Gita along just ONE path would be to negate the central message of the Gita itself, ie , ALL paths eventually lead to God, and each one chosses a path in accordance with their own tendencies.
Which is what I wrote in my earlier message, and which is why I do not try to "convince" others that a particular path is right or wrong, although I may have my own opinion of what is healthy or not.
>>>No, that is not true in my experience. Yogananda would tell his disciples, "Get Devotion!!" And we are told to practice Kriya with devotion if we want results. It's true...as long as Kriya is just a physical exercise, the results will be limited.<<
Terrie, IF Yogananda really asks his follower to "get devotion", I would like to ask devotion to what/whom ?
If getting devotion is a very important consideration, AND if Yogananda accepts The Gita in principle, then where does the question of "getting results" arise.
There can be NO question of getting devotion with a view to gaining "results". Devotion begins only when the need to "get results" has been abandoned. If Kriya Yoga has to be practiced with devotion so that one may "gain results" , even if they are spiritual in nature, then the very basic concept of The Gita is contradicted , which is "perform action , WITHOUT expecting results".
And IF Yogananda based his Kriya Yoga on the Raja Yoga of The Gita, and prescribed the above way, then the paradox is very fundamental.
It is like swallowing the camel and rejecting the gnat :-) Hari Sampath
Terrie 992
07-28-2001 12:49 AM
Edited by author 07-28-2001 12:55 AM
Ref #989 SUPRIYA
Thank you, Supriya, for a very, very interesting and enlightening post.
You've explained so well what is important today in India and why kundalini is a subject relegated to he back burner for the majority of Indians.
Someone told me (I forget who) that Ammachi was heard to say that she prefers American devotees because they truly care about coming closer to God, whereas in India she is always asked to pray for better material circumstances for the family, a good marriage for a daughter, a new vehicle, good education for the children, etc.
Yes, Supriya, thank you so much for your message. I'm happy that you've joined us here from India.
With kind thoughts,
Terrie
If anyone is wondering if Supriya's post is relevant to this board, it's very relevant because she confirms what I suspected: Modern Indians know little or nothing about kundalini. And this goes directly back to the claims that ssb "raises" the kundalini of boys and young men. No one knows any better than to believe what the sai org says about kundalini.
sarf 991
07-28-2001 12:37 AM
"No, I have NEVER called anyone spiritually ignorant. All I am saying is Sai Baba devotees are unaware of the real facts about him"
That means the same as ignorant. Look it up in the dictionary. Its that darned inconsistency again.
It boils down to religious intolerance, born of religious fanaticism which you yourself condemned.
You have NOT proven anything yet, yet you persist in calling your allegations 'facts'. In which court have you 'proven' your charges?
Terrie 990
07-28-2001 12:35 AM
Ref #978: Hari Sampath
I agree that there shouldn't be much discussion of "off the topic" subjects.
But I did want you to know that to me Lord Krishna and Lord Rama are real people. You assume too much from my words, thinking I believed them to be myths.
In reference to the Srimad Bhagavatham, I meant that some of the STORIES about Krishna were more symbolism than fact, such as the belief among some ssb devotees that he had 16 million wives. I expect that refers to the many petaled lotus of enlightenment, the opened crown chakra. In other words, a completely raised kundalini.
Yes, my devotee daughter did say to me, "Krishna had 16 million wives, so who are we to question what ssb does??" Such profound reasoning these devotees use to explain the "avatar's" actions with young boys!!
Supriya 989
07-28-2001 12:31 AM
Terrie in response to your remark about no one saying anything intelligent about kundilini: The reason may be that there is nothing intelligent that can be said about it. In india TODAY spiritual matters are largely an export commodity. It is a national resource like coal, lead, and oil. It generates hundreds of millions of dollars of foreign exchange each year from tourists, pilgrims, backpackers, and the ever popular ashram circuit.
However for the mainstream population of India TODAY, religion is not based on faith so much as Hope. Hope for a better life, hope for a good grade, the hope of finding a kind husband, etc. We go to the temple on gurupurnima, mahashivaratri, etc, because, culturally, it is the proper thing to do.
Mostly we go to the temple to beg the Lord for favors.
"Spirituality", is an English term. A hold over from the days of British rule. In India today we are concerned with accumulating wealth to secure the future of our children. Only westerners and those who make a living catering to their interests in "spirituality", have any interest in such matters. In our homes and universities, such topics are never heard. (Except at certain 'fundamentalist' schools)
Of course the goal of life is some effemeral thing called "Moksa". I can't tell you what is is because I have not 'experienced' it.
If you ask a million Indians today, "what is kundalini", they will all give the same answer: "I don't know". There is no interest. Kundalini is an export commodity from Rishikesh.
Life is very fast, it's over in the blink of an eye, we've children to raise, and elders to care for, where is the time for yogis and gurus??? We (largely) ACCEPT that "life is a dream", an inscrutable Divine "Leela", so instead of searching for meaning, we seek security, and shelter from life's storms.
I hope this answers your question.
With kind regards,
Supriya
sarf 988
07-28-2001 12:25 AM
>>I am of the opinion that by "anti Christ" the idea meant to be conveyed is "anti God" or in Hindu terms if you want it, "asura"<<
Very well, let us all together learn of the anti-christ, which is undoubtedly a specifically christian belief that has no equivalent in hinduism, AFAIK. Heres a link to the Catholic Encyclopaedia and some excerpts:
"); "Who is a liar, but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denies the Father, and the Son" (1 John 2:22); "And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God; and this is Antichrist" (1 John 4:3); "For many seducers are gone out into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh: this is a seducer and an Antichrist" (2 John 7). Also the time, the Apostle places the coming of Antichrist at "the last hour" (1 John 2:18); again he maintains that "he is now already in the world" (1 John 4:3). "
"The individual person of Antichrist will not be a demon, as some of the ancient writers believed; nor will he be the person of the devil incarnated in the human nature of Antichrist. He will he a human person, perhaps of Jewish extraction,"
Its weird that there are NO christians in this board attacking Sai Baba as anti-christ: we only have followers of various hindu gurus and some agnostics. ALL of whom would be considered anti-christs as per John 2:22.
Once again, is it too much to ask you all to be consistent in your beliefs?
Hari Sampath 987
07-28-2001 12:20 AM
Edited by author 07-28-2001 12:22 AM
To Sa... ref msg # 982
>>"To call others spiritually ignorant is the first sign of spiritual ignorance. "
Hmmm...isnt that what you are calling SB devotees?<<
No, I have NEVER called anyone spiritually ignorant. All I am saying is Sai Baba devotees are unaware of the real facts about him. I had always held that Sai Baba devotees are mostly sincere seekers of God, nice people, with their own normal share of human fallibilities, just like everyone else, and with their own set of good qualities like most others.
>>"You have every right to believe in and follow anything you think is right and good, and so does everyone else. "
So why are you interfering with the right of SB devotees to follow SB?<<
I am NOT interfering with anyone's rights. Go on, follow SB. I have a right to state my views about SB publicly, and I am doing so. Of course my intent, as always , has to be to expose the real nature of SB to everyone , including his followers, and it is my right to do so.
SB devotees may choose to follow SB no matter what anyone says, it is their right.
>>>"Yogananda is not a widely accepted master in India"
Neither is his guru Sri Yukteswar, nor Lahiri Mahasaya, nor the 'immortal' Babaji. This seems to be almost entirely an American cult.<<
Not necessarily. Paramahamsa Yogananda, Kriya Babaji and Sri Yuktheswar etc,
all these gurus, despite not having widespread influence or acceptance in India, have done great service in introducing Indian Spirituality to the West.
Not all Gurus who traveled to the west could be called frauds. They all had their own calling and mission in life.
The likes of Yogananda, Prabhupada (you should know :-) ) and several others like Maharishi Mahesh Yogi , did travel to the West and did tailor Indian Spirituality to make it a little more followable to the average Westerner.
This by itself is no harm, since Westerners would be more likely to know less about Indian Spiritual philosophies than Indians themselves ( in many instances Westerners do know a lot more).
These Gurus did a great seva by introducing Indian Philosophy to the west in an age of rampant materialism.
That doesn't make them all cults.
Shall we please take this philosophical discussion offline ?? And stick to the topic "Sai Baba -anti Christ ? " ........ or if you will "Sai Baba -anti God ? " :-)
Hari Sampath.
Hari Sampath 986
07-27-2001 11:59 PM
To Sarf :
You know well I am aware who you are. You are perfectly aware of my philosophy.
Isn't it funny, however much names and IDs change, attitude doesn't, belief doesn't :-)
Let me tell once again, it is impossible to reconcile Lord Krishna and Sai Baba :-)
Hari Sampath
Hari Sampath 985
07-27-2001 11:50 PM
To Sarf :
I am of the opinion that by "anti Christ" the idea meant to be conveyed is "anti God" or in Hindu terms if you want it, "asura" Hari Sampath
sarf 984
07-27-2001 11:31 PM
Hari wrote:
"Hereafter, I am just sticking to the topic "sai Baba -anti christ"
As a Vaishnava how do you explain this 'anti-christ' business? Such a belief is limited to Christians isn't it? Is there a similar 'anti-Krisna' belief among Vaishnavites? Any mention of it in the Bhagavata?
sarf 983
07-27-2001 11:16 PM
Terrie wrote:
"you can practice a technique such as Kriya Yoga taught by Yogananda's line of gurus. But it only takes a little time each day. The rest of the day is work, recreation and sex as usual."
This an example of false watered down teachings that some Indian gurus in the west use to entice western devotees who find the spiritual path too austere and too difficult. Rajneesh took it to the extreme. In any case, I have read that Yogananda extolled the spiritual benefit of celibacy, not 'sex as usual'.
"My devotee daughter tells me I'm small and naarrow minded and listen to false rumors and carry tales. "I see no signs of spiritual development in you at all," she says.) So be it: the words of a staunch ssb devotee to her mother."
Interesting revelation about yourself. Who are we to argue with your own daughter?
sarf 982
07-27-2001 11:09 PM
Hari Sampath:
"To call others spiritually ignorant is the first sign of spiritual ignorance. "
Hmmm...isnt that what you are calling SB devotees?
"You have every right to believe in and follow anything you think is right and good, and so does everyone else. "
So why are you interfering with the right of SB devotees to follow SB?
"Yogananda is not a widely accepted master in India"
Neither is his guru Sri Yukteswar, nor Lahiri Mahasaya, nor the 'immortal' Babaji. This seems to be almost entirely an American cult.
Terrie 981
07-27-2001 10:58 PM
Edited by author 07-27-2001 11:01 PM
Message #977: Hari Sampath, you said:
"One thing my spiritual heritage has taught me is NOT to forcefully impose my views on philosophy or spirituality on others. This is because I know that each person will go according to their own tendencies...."
I agree one hundred percent. We have no argument there.
"To call others spiritually ignorant is the first sign of spiritual ignorance. Nobody is fully aware, nor is anyone fully ignorant."
Please...I didn't say you were spiritually ignorant. I said or meant to say that you did not seem to be aware of the time honored Indian teachings regarding kundalini. Now if the teachings in India's spiritual texts are subject to widely different personal interpretations, that is another matter.
"As far as your statement in the previous message "speeding up spiritual development, I respectfully disagree. Nobody can speed up spiritual development nor slow it down."
You are sounding awfully dogmatic here. You disagree with Yogananda's line of gurus, which is your perogative. The only reason I cite Yogananda is because that's where my own personal experience is. He has interpreted the entire Gita in terms of spiritual development via Raja Yoga, of which Kriya yoga (related to kundalini) is a part.
This is ONE spiritual path. I can't talk about what I haven't experienced, i.e. other spiritual paths. But there are many spiritual paths that talk about the raising of kundalini being necessary for enlightenment.
"But if kriya yoga (mostly consisting of controlled breath cycles) were to lead to spiritual awakening and knowledge of God, then anybody and everybody
can do it despite whatever stage of development they are in."
I believe that is what Yogananda would say...anyone can do it. The knot is that people who can't concentrate and have very restless minds usually won't want to preactice a breathing technique.. They will simply have no interest.
The case of beer, Las Vegas, the shiny new car will interest them more. And that is O.K. too.
"Since this is not the case, and Kriya yoga is mostly a physical exercise without any "devotion" involved, I very much doubt if the results so achieved are really "spiritual"
we are told to practice Kriya with devotion if we want