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pageThis document contains posts 792-826 from the Anthony Thomas Quick Topic discussion board. Posts are in reverse order. To follow the conversation, read from bottom to top.
Hari Sampath 826
07-25-2001 09:33 PM
To Sarf :
I didn't say I was a "chosen mouthpiece" of God. I merely stated the obvious that if SB devotees are really sincere, and considering the fact that SB is a proven fraud, then logically the real devotion will certainly be fulfilled by the Real God.
By the way, what about a response to what I asked about the "Avatar" Sai Baba's "avatar day lie " of October 20th 1940 , no answers yet ?, on explaining this 60 year old fraud ??
Hari Sampath
sarf 825
07-25-2001 08:51 PM
Edited by author 07-25-2001 09:11 PM
Hari Sampath, the 'real deal' satguru says:
"None of the followers of Sai Baba will in any way be impacted by the impending expose of Sai Baba"
Wow! What a relief! For a second there I thought your pious pomposity was going to condemn us eternal hellfire. Speaking of hell, why is it that you all think SB is the antichrist if you are not christians? Why are you all so inconsistent?
>>we can rest assured that the Real Higher power will ensure that they don't.<<
Glad to hear you have a direct line to the Real Higher Power. But can I ask you for a sign from this Real God showing you are indeed His chosen mouthpiece? Just a teeny-weeny materialization would do it for me.
Talk is cheap my friends. You all can talk the talk. But no one has walked the walk that Sai Baba has. Not for a long, long time.
Hari Sampath 824
07-25-2001 07:09 PM
To Guru Bakt :
>>My religion says that even if the Guru is a scoundrel, a cheap trickster, a third rate street magician, a child abuser, a person with a very stupid and ridiculous hairstyle, if i am devoted to him, then my devotion has it's own power.
So, to all the devotees of Sai: it is ok, your devotion has some value :-)<<
Of course, you are correct. The devotion, expressed sincerely towards SB by his innocent folowers certainly has a lot of avlue, and is in no way different from the devotion expressed to a Real God/Guru.
As far as these followers are concerned, they are only giving that devotion to "God", who they believe at that time to be SB. Since the Real Highest power is the Real owner of all such devotion, we can reasonably assume that such a power will "receive" or accept this devotion.
In fact, such a power may well reciprocate this devotion, which the folowers will "see" as grace by Sai Baba.
This is what I have been maintaining all along, and this explains why followers of Sai Baba do experience "phenomena" while being far away from him.
As to the question raised by someone why followers of Elvis Presley do not experience this "phenomena", the answer is simple : They do not really believe Elvis to be God, and that is why thy do not experience these phenomena.
All this does not excuse the fact that Sai Baba is a corrupt, deceiving , pedophile, scamster, who will probably have to pay for the karma he is accumulating.
None of the followers of Sai Baba will in any way be impacted by the impending expose of Sai Baba, because we can rest assured that the Real Higher power will ensure that they don't.
Thanks,
Hari Sampath.
Guru Bhakt 823
07-25-2001 05:30 PM
Change the topic: it should not be anti-Christ, it should be anti-Humanity or anti-Fools for the millions of fools that get fooled every year
Guru Bhakt 822
07-25-2001 05:28 PM
I worship the feet of my Guru.
My religion says that even if the Guru is a scoundrel, a cheap trickster, a third rate street magician, a child abuser, a person with a very stupid and ridiculous hairstyle, if i am devoted to him, then my devotion has it's own power.
So, to all the devotees of Sai: it is ok, your devotion has some value :-)
Hari Sampath 821
07-25-2001 03:59 PM
Reply to Hairy Samputt :
>>>>Why would Sathya Sai Baba have to indulge in molestations?He has so many countless people who give their very lives for him.When that is the case,all Sathya Sai Baba needs is to ask for any sexual gratification if at all he needs one!!To even discuss this subject is so revolting <<<
Yes, exactly, that is what Sai Baba has been doing. He invites young men into interview rooms, and asks them to perform oral sex. Some do, some don't.
I agree the subject is revolting...... but then, so is your guru and the subject is revolting, because your guru's activities are the subject here.
Hari Sampath.
Hari Sampath 820
07-25-2001 03:54 PM
Reply to Hairy Samputt :
>>>You and your ilk are nothing but liars.Why would an ex-FBI agent go and work for Sathya Sai Organisation.Within 3 years of time you have the won the confidence of Sathya Sai Organisation and they have put you to work for the security is it?? What are you an Commando trained in the security of VVVIPS?? Don't try to con people?You are being sponsored by the Vaishanava Mutts from South India and the rest of the westerner's are nothing but Christians trying to defame Sathya Sai Baba and Hinduism in particular as its getting popular<<<
If you have the resources, check out whether what I say is true or not.
Nanda is an ex FBI agent who worked in the white collar crimes sector , in the middle east. He is STILL the Ashram security chief, and still receives a US govt pension.
I was very much in that unit for 3 years, and I was a follower from 1989. I can prove this. I have several people there still, who keep in touch with me.
I was not commando trained, I explained to you the real nature of the Prashanti seva group...... by the way, you yourselves said that this was a "specially trained CID like group", why contradict yourself ??
You say I am sponsored by the S.India Vaishnava mutts ? and I am also working with Western Christians? So, what you are saying is, the Vaishnava Mutts and the Christian orgs have come together to defame Sai Baba because Hinduism is getting popular ???
Can you visualise how ridiculous you sound ?? I am not too sure if you have even realised how stupid you are .
By the way, how come you haven't still addressed the issue of Sai Baba deliberately lying for 60 years about "events" on the avatar day of 1940 ??
Hari Sampath.
Hairy Samputt 819
07-25-2001 03:54 PM
Countless number of people are donating to Sathya Sai Trusts why?Because they know the good work that is being carried by Sathya Sai Baba.Can anyone of you emulate him in the matter of building schools,colleges,hospitals and donating sewing machines,tractors,saris,dhotis etc
Hairy Samputt 818
07-25-2001 03:49 PM
Why would Sathya Sai Baba have to indulge in molestations?He has so many countless people who give their very lives for him.When that is the case,all Sathya Sai Baba needs is to ask for any sexual gratification if at all he needs one!!To even discuss this subject is so revolting that guys go on about for lengths together.Can any one who has spoken ill about Sathya Sai Baba prove it in the court of law??
Hari Sampath 817
07-25-2001 03:45 PM
Excerpt from SB's recent discourse :
>>>A person remained silent though he was being criticised. When his friend wanted him to react, he replied, "The same Atma is present in me as well as in the person who is criticising. So, why should I be annoyed when he is criticising himself." <<<
If SB is proclaiming this, then why did he react so disgracefully when magazines wrote about him ? In his shameful Christmas disCURSE, everyone knows how badly he reacted, calling people dogs, cursing them to their doom etc .
Where was this "aatma oneness" on Christmas ?? gone for a holiday ?
Hari Sampath.
Hairy Samputt 816
07-25-2001 03:33 PM
>>The unit is headed by Nanda, a former FBI agent, and Shyamal sood, a senior seva dal from Bangal is the asst leader.<<
You and your ilk are nothing but liars.Why would an ex-FBI agent go and work for Sathya Sai Organisation.Within 3 years of time you have the won the confidence of Sathya Sai Organisation and they have put you to work for the security is it?? What are you an Commando trained in the security of VVVIPS?? Don't try to con people?You are being sponsored by the Vaishanava Mutts from South India and the rest of the westerner's are nothing but Christians trying to defame Sathya Sai Baba and Hinduism in particular as its getting popular.
Hari Sampath 815
07-25-2001 03:29 PM
Reply to Hairy Samputt :
>>>Baba does not live in luxury. He does not go on foreign jaunts in luxury aeroplanes. He does not stay in luxurious hotels; he does not throw lavish parties to big people<<<
Sai Baba has SIX luxury automobiles that were imported.
Sai Baba charters flights to travel to Mumbai and Delhi.
Sai Baba stays in spacious mansions luxuriously setup for him when he travels, so he need not stay in "luxury hotels".
Sai Baba throws "birthday parties" and invites a galaxy of musicians to come and perform , with the entire Indian Govt in attendance. ALL expenses for ALL these activities are paid for from the money people donate for "charitable activities".
Sai Baba has his mandir decorated with chandeliers ( 300 chandeliers each costing about 1 million Indian rupees) and also has the roof of his mandir lined with solid gold.
AND , on top of all this, Sai Baba says that the Govt is not giving him land to build a home for orphans !!!!
EVEN when the Govt has gifted him the land in Puttaparthi and Bangalore to build hospitals, Sai Baba does not even acknowledge that publicly.
Sai Baba openly solicits funds for all projects through Sanathana Sarathi and through word of mouth.
Who is a hypochrite ?? Hari Sampath ... or Sai Baba ??
Thanks,
Hari Sampath.
Hari Sampath 814
07-25-2001 03:16 PM
Reply to Hairy Samputt :
>>>openly in the training camps for Seva Dal workers and for the selected devotee members of 'Prasanthi Security Service' which, in fact is a secret service, organized like CID, to keep an eye on the criminals, swindlers, undesirable elements and those who are suspected to be against the Bhagavan or his organization<<<
Yes, you are perfectly right. But this was started in 1992. I was a member of this select Ashram intelligence and inner security setup between 1992 and 1995.
The unit is headed by Nanda, a former FBI agent, and Shyamal sood, a senior seva dal from Bangal is the asst leader.
There were 35 members between 1992 and 1994, and after that it was increased to 45.
We used Infra red binoculars, wireless communication equipment, and we even had watch towers around the ashram.
The Prashanti seva group had a lot more activities than you will ever know.
We had complete dossiers on all journalists etc, and kept an eye basically on anything that might criticize Sai Baba.
There are tunnels running underground , in the ashram, and there is one particular tunnel from under the mandir to Poornachandra hall. ( I remember how I used to laugh in amusement, when SB after having walked to the mandir, used to suddenly give darshan from the poornachandra balcony.... devotees used to think SB translocated astrally !!!, while we all knew what exactly had happened)
I was there 4 days after the June 6th murders, and was a part of the ashram task force to "investigate" the incidents. SB had , in fact asked me to stay for 4 days, then leave and come back after 15 days, to stay for another month.
Thanks,
Hari Sampath.
Hari Sampath 813
07-25-2001 03:05 PM
Reply to Hairy Samputt :
>>>Hari Sampath Minus Sathya Sai Baba Equals To Zero
Hari before you start to equal Sathya Sai Baba try to emulate these feats of Sathya Sai Baba.<<<
1. I didn't equate myself with Sai Baba ..... YOU did.
2. I have NO intention of "emulating his feats", because I dislike cheating, and I am not a pedophile.
Thanks,
Hari Sampath.
Hairy Samputt 811
07-25-2001 02:07 PM
Hari Sampath Minus Sathya Sai Baba Equals To Zero Hari before you start to equal Sathya Sai Baba try to emulate these feats of Sathya Sai Baba.
Baba's Wealth
We do not know on what basis the Supreme Court Advocate Bal Gopal wrote that "Sai Baba has a fund of Rs 10,000 crores", and cast doubts on the sources thereof. Firstly, Sai Baba personally does not own any money, landed property or assets in his name. All monies and properties are, it is told to the devotees, in the name of Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust. So there does not seem to be any room for frauds or wasting of funds. In his discourse on 14.1.1994 Baba publicly declared as under:
"There is no hospital like it anywhere in the world, giving totally free treatment. Nor are there doctors rendering free and dedicated service as in our hospital. Swami is spending crores on the hospital. The money is spent with scrupulous care. Not a naya paisa is wasted. Many devotees, seeing the good work that is being done, are sending voluntary donations according to their capacity. All this money is being spent by the Sathya Sai Trust with unexcelled concern for economy and integrity. Unscrupulous and envious detractors are levelling charges of misuse of the funds by the Trust. This is a grievous sin. Swami examines every bill, minutely before making payment. The doctors for their part are looking after the patients in a spirit of dedication and teamwork. This spirit of unity should prevail in all our Sai institutions and organizations. The character of their work reflects on Swami's name." Sanathana Sarathi, Feb 94, p. 35.
It is clear that whatever funds are there, certainly they should be in crores, (but not perhaps Rs 10,000 crores that estimate seems to be Bal Gopal's hyperbole) in the Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust. They come from wealthy Indian and foreign donors for the welfare activities of the Trust.
Those who care to know facts will find that Sri Sathya Sai Trust has been spending crores of rupees in building and running the Sri Sathya Sai Institute of Higher Learning (Baba's University) and Sri Sathya Sai Institute of Higher Medicine (Superspeciality Hospital), modern canteen, schools, other institutions and for providing free education and medical treatment to thousands of people at Prasanthi Nilayam. Besides these huge funds, thousands of devotees from all Indian states have been rendering absolutely free service as Seva Dal workers in the construction and other ashram activities in the spirit of selfless devotion and dedication to Sai Baba. Sathya Sai Baba's power of Sankalpa gets concretised. Baba himself spoke thus about his power of Sankalpa in one of his discourses many years back:
The Power of Sai Sankalpa
'Of course, money is an essential requisite and those who have assumed responsibility for service projects do need it. Six thousand villages have been adopted by the units of the organization and facilities for education and medicine are provided therein, besides roads and wells. When I decide on a project, the wherewithal for accomplishing has to be spontaneously available without any fund- raising campaign. My will has the power to concretize my plan. I willed that a College must be opened at Puttaparthi; the Rajmata of Nawanagar built it. In order to feed it with properly trained boys, I willed a Higher Secondary School; Bozzani from America asked that he be given the chance to build it. I thought that at this place education on Sai lines must be available to children from the primary stage itself.
Craxi, the brother of the Prime Minister of Italy, offered to build the school. At Bangalore, when I decided on a plan for a college and hostel, Mrs Elsie Cowan asked that she be given the privilege of completing it. Such is the might of my Sankalpa, my will.
Free-food for Devotees
Another small event. For full eight days, hundreds of thousands of people are treated as guests and breakfast, lunch and dinner are provided in festival style. When ten persons are fed free, the host desires that it should appear with huge headlines in newspapers. But, who craves for publicity when one's dear relatives gather for meals at home? Though lakhs of people share in the hospitality, one finds no hurry and no parading. When I entertained the idea of granting this boon to every one drawn to the Birthday festival, Dr Bhaskara Rao from West Godavari district and Karunyananda from East Godavari district arrived at Kodaikanal and prayed that they be blessed with the sacred responsibility. I warned them that the lakhs would be too big a burden, but they persisted, saying: "With your blessings, we can take on even crores." And, promptly, without any fuss, 5000 bags of rice reached here from those two districts and from Krishna, Guntur and Nellore districts. Hundreds of bags of wheat, flour and sooji arrived from Punjab, followed by the same number of sugar and jaggery bags from UP. From Madras huge quantities of pulses were brought by members of the organization. Did any one demand or ask for these? Can you get them by asking for them or demanding that they be given? Try and see what happens.
Everything was offered spontaneously, silently, sincerely, with so much love and humility. This is their homage of Thyaga, of service through sacrifice.
A man should own wealth only as much as is essential. It is like the size of his shoes. If the shoes are too loose, he cannot walk; if they are too tight he cannot wear them. Too much money is a torture; rich people will agree with this judgment. It is foolish to accumulate money and sit on the pile, which turns into garbage. Spread garbage over the corn field, it will fertilize the crop and multiply the harvest. After all, how much and how long can a man enjoy? A dog can only lap up limited water, even from a huge lake; like blood, money too should circulate to ensure health.
Hairy Samputt 810
07-25-2001 02:00 PM
Hari Sampath Minus Sathya Sai Baba Equals To Zero
So Hari you have started to equal yourself to Sathya Sai Baba.Why not the JEER?
Baba's Organization
Baba's organization is a spiritual and service organization. Most of the people working in the different wings and institutions like schools, university, hospitals, canteen, etc, are dedicated devotees who are doing either totally voluntary or honorary services or taking very little salaries, and only some of them are getting full salaries in regular grades.
They all are serving there not for making money or big lucrative business but for serving Baba. Most of them are retired persons who are depending mainly on their own pensions or past earnings. They may be offered free residence and meals in the canteen by Baba. The researcher personally knows that one of his friends has been serving there in Baba's university as Professor and Head of a Department for the last five years; he is not in the full University Professor's Grade, he is getting only free accommodation and just a few hundred rupees per month for his food in the canteen. Baba has revealed that the two Vice-Chancellors of his university did not draw any salaries from the Sai University. The officers and other workers of the Sai organization do not draw TA and DA from the Trust; they usually meet their expenses on their own. The Sai organization works under the overall guidance of Baba in accordance with the highest principles and values taught by Him.
Hundreds of volunteers, called Seva Dal, render absolutely voluntary free service in the belief that they are serving God Sai Baba, in the Sai organizational activities throughout the 140 or more countries in the world in the finest spirit of 'Manava Seva, Madhava Seva' as emphasized by Baba.
They spend their own money on their travel and on their meals and maintenance during their period of Seva at Baba's ashram or in the institution and also often make their humble contributions towards the expenses of the activities.
Sometimes, of course, there are incidents in which devotees and visitors experience shocking discourtesy, rudeness, petty minded, jealousies in the behaviour of some of the Sai organizational bosses and workers, which really hurts and saddens them. Sometimes the workers become overzealous in discharge of their duties as the saviours, watchdogs or custodians of Sai empire and this creates minor problems. After all, they are also human beings, and so sometimes they also are likely to behave under the influence of their innate instincts and impulses temporarily forgetting Baba's teachings of love. Many devotees complain that their queries and requests to Baba's institutions for supplying information and to provide help as desired by them are almost never responded to and it is difficult to speak to Baba and put up one's grievances and problems before him personally. There prevails a sort of latent distrust towards intellectuals and those with questioning minds. There is so much of formality in social relations. Baba usually does not reprimand or punish such erring or discourteous workers in public, and this gives the impression to many outsiders that He favours his workers right or wrong. Many are thus led to believe that it is part of this karmic dispensation to be treated like this at their hands, and they just tolerate it, without complaining to Baba. Baba knows everything, but his style of functioning is different. He enforces strict discipline through the leaders appointed by Him or by the organization. Sometimes aggrieved ones send letters to Baba mentioning their grievances. Baba gives long rope to his erring workers, and when limits are crossed he fires the incorrigible ones. Some important functionaries in his ashram have, it is heard, been removed from their positions by Baba recently after complaints of some bungling, rudeness, etc. Baba finally spares none who is not up to the mark.
He expects each one of the devotees to render service to the Lord with all humility and sincerity.
Recently, on 3 July 1996, Baba admitted and very graphically described and sternly deplored all such unfortunate lapses on the part of his devotees and workers at his organization, in his long discourse published under the caption Bhagavan Deplores Devotees' Lapses' in his Ashram's monthly journal 'Sanathana Sarathi" July 1996 (pp. 182-85). That discourse must to be read by everyone to understand the reality and the fact that Baba really does not like such improprieties on the part of his workers and devotees in the Ashram. Let us hope, things will improve there now.
Anthony 809
07-25-2001 01:50 PM
Glen.
Great on the story. I will certainly thank her.
bhakthan (804) Well said
Andries and whomever
The fortunate thing about people expressing their experiences of an energy beyond that experienced in the physical plane, is that you don't have to believe it! It is said because it is considered useful for those people who do conceive of the idea that things can be done to others through a psychic plane. We can all only go by own experiences and understanding of things. If we are able to express these various ideas of how we individually feel 'sb' works, then between all of us we will reach all the different types of devotees. Some people strongly only believe what they can see with their eyes and others feel that things occur beyond that level. Many people actually experience these forms of subtle energy. I do but it is no big deal. I certainly don't feel it is anything special and I know tons of people who experience this type of energy. I am sure there are millions of people who are aware of far more than I can ever grasp hold of.
The thing that is relevant to the expose itself is the molesting of children. That is what was people will not tolerate and that will be his downfall. The only reason the other stuff about etheric planes comes up, is to help devotees get rid of the influence that 'sb' has over them.
People do use the energy of others. It is nothing new. Been happening forever. Perhaps some people have experienced feeling quite drained after a conversation with certain people in your life. Some people just drain others energy on a psychic level. 'sb' just happens to do it conciously and for reasons of increasing his own abilities. Probably these pyschic abilites end up being equivalent to the amount of etheric energy one has. He has tons of etheric energy (taken from admirers) hence he is able to astral travel to the degree he does. He visis millions if you listen to the stories. Many people can astral travel, but to do it to that extent you need lots of energy.
Sari
So, there are some of us that believe he has no power and some that believe he has (through using the energy of others), So what. We are allowed to have differing ideas. We probably match the devotees and ex devotees in their ideas about this. Perhaps one is right, perhaps boith right - who cares! We all have one goal 'get the real truth out about 'sb' so he can longer be anyone's lord and master.'
Let us get back to the real Creator of the universe.
MarsWalker108 808
07-25-2001 11:55 AM
Re: thank you to Glen Meloy
>>I pray that Connie Larsson will be healed of the affliction for which he was institutionalized.<<
On post # 16188 of David Lane's club is information concerning my phone call to Conny Larsson last week.
Conny told me he has been a headmaster of a criminal and drug addict institute of 21 years. He is one of the most respected professionals in the rehabitation field in Sweden.
He said that he also works in the Polish criminal system. In fact, he makes a trip to Poland twice a year to work.
SSB claims he is God. He claims he is Krishna etc. Do you really think that a venerable holly being as Krishna would approve you spreading false rumors about Conny? Please answer the question! One wonders if SSB has modeled this behavior in you
By the way, if SSB is Krishna do you really think for an instant that he would need you to defend him on this board by such negative tactics.
I ask you to please pick up the phone and call Conny Larrson for your self.
Have you ever phoned just ONE victim and ever discussed the allegations?
Love, MarsWalker108
thank you to Glen Meloy 807
07-25-2001 11:12 AM
Thank you to Glen Meloy for the website..
it is nice to have a picture of Tal Brooke
for the brief 19 months in which he was a vegetarian..
the picture of Swami on the site is very
arresting.
It is nice to know that Said (Sai in Said)
Afshin Khorramshahgols is an Iranian American
not an Iranian in the UK.
I pray that Connie Larsson will be healed
of the affliction for which he was institutionalized.. that Tal Brooke will return
to non animal devouring and to Swami..
that Afshin will put Sanathana Dharma ahead
of the politics of Pakistan.. that David
Bailey will return to the world of dharma..
Please tell us your own story Glen.
SAISHOOT 806
07-25-2001 10:41 AM
REPLY TO MICHAEL GOLDBERG REG. 'SALON'' ARTICLE;
A job well done Mike. Please read your 4 page article and realise that it poignantly details mostly good credentials of SB, which speaks against your usual allegation stories. Any intelligent individual who reads your article will want to see SB in person b/c the story dosen't fit. In essence you've advertised SB to the web pages and perhaps to few others. All masters survived such ordeal. Your accusation stories might be true in some areas..but that doesn't mean all are true and is an evil act by SB. Be humble to learn from the history of other enlightened souls.
Finally, your admittance candidly that in spite of all these negative publicity, SB and his organisation is fast growing is to be applauded. Keep up the ad..
WHAT ARE YOUR CREDENTIALS..CAN WE KNOW ABOUT YOURSELF...PL.POST THE SAME.
Andries 805
07-25-2001 09:25 AM
Edited by author 07-25-2001 10:31 AM
Dear Questor and all,
You wrote
>'I am sure there are people lurking here who have all >types of beliefs. We need to be tolerant of all of them.
>Perhaps not so tolerant of the ssb believers because of >the damage he has caused to so many, in my opinion.'
I think we need to be extra tolerant of SSB devotees. It's wrong to blame the people under the spell of this sociopath. See http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/Ct-socio.htm. SSB devotees never meant any harm. They may have been too gullible and deaf for the other side of the story. But I consider it unnecessarily painful to emphasize now on the previous mistakes made by the devotees.
I beg you and others to be extra kind and patient towards present SSB devotees. I really like your postings but if you want to bash current devotees of SSB then I request you to do that on a site that devotees will probably not read. See also http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/ithurts.htm
>From Frank Morales Open Letter to the Followers of Sathya Sai Baba 'For those who have highlighted the ludicrous nature of Sai Baba's claims to be a miracle-worker and avatara for many years previous to these recent revelations, now is not a time to gloat about having been right. It is now a time for compassion towards Sai Baba's many sincere and dedicated devotees.'
Frank Morales has more or less experienced the same in the Iskcon/Hare Krishna movement.
Thanks in advance and kind regards, Andries K.D.
bhakthan 804
5-2001 08:19 AM
well -I have been reading all the messages inthis board- i am surprised at the incredulity of so many people- how they can believe a human being is simply a God bcause he can produce ash or gold articles - why not brass or copper items or fruits largerthanwhat a human palm hold-and why GOD also should giftonly gold or precious rings- which have only material value added on it by mortal human beings -
Ihave been watching saibaba sincelast fifty years and I am stillwaiting for him tomaterialise a naturalfruitor flower to any on of his innocent devotees-or for him to offer darshan/interviw to a poor and penniless beggar on his own - so many throng outside his ashrams- Charitable work cannot entitle any one to claim Divinity or mislead peoplein any way.
Andries 803
07-25-2001 07:51 AM
http://www.exbaba.nl/
Just want to remind people that the Dutch ex-SSB website now has a lot of support for English language. Thanks to the hard work of the webmaster.
Glen Meloy 802
07-25-2001 03:50 AM
Dear Friends,
The following link will take you directly to the story.
>Untouchable?
>By Michelle Goldberg
>
>http://www.salon.com/people/feature/2001/07/25/baba/index.html
>
>For Love, Truth and Goodness,
Glen
Glen Meloy 801
07-25-2001 03:20 AM
Dear Former Devotees, Devotees, Friends and Supporters of Truth and Goodness,
I am pleased to share with all of you that we have finally had a major breakthrough today in the USA, wherein salon.com has now published a major cover story on Sai baba entitled...
Untouchable?
Sai Baba, perhaps the most powerful
holy man in India, is also an alleged
pedophile.
By Michelle Goldberg
You can view it online and print it out from http://salon.com/
When you have finished reading the story, please write a short thank you note to Michelle and the Editors. You can do this at the end of the story in the section entitled
Sound Off
Send us a Letter to the Editor
You can also send a personal note of thanks directly to Michelle (See her letter below).
For Love, Truth and Goodness,
Glen
From: Glen Meloy <yesontruth@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:33:29 -0700
To: michelle goldberg <michellehelene@yahoo.com> Subject: Salon.com Cover Story entitled "Untouchable"?
Dear Michelle,
All former devotees and supporters of Truth and Goodness appreciate your shining the spotlight of Truth on the dark side of Sathya Sai Baba who calls himself God .
Hopefully your story will open the eyes and touch the hearts of the American people and that it will be syndicated throughout the world media until this evil molester of chldren is brought to justice; and that his organization is exposed and held accountable for covering up these heinous acts for over 40 years.
We thank you for your excellent writing and may it soon be proved that he is indeed.. NOT Untouchable.
It has been a privilege to work with you and I hope the editors of Salon.com will consider allowing you to do a follow-up story on all the other leads and material that has been furnished to you.
Our Heartfelt Thanks from all of us,
Glen Meloy
>From: michelle goldberg <michellehelene@yahoo.com>
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
>To: yesontruth@earthlink.net
>Subject: salon story
>
>Dear Mr. Meloy,
>
>I'm writing to let you know that my piece on Sai Baba
>will run as a Salon cover story tomorrow (Wednesday).
>I apologize for not having the time to pursue every
>angle of the story, but I think the final piece (more
>than 2000 words longer than it was originally
>assigned) will bring much attention to your struggle.
>
>Thanks again for all your help.
>>Sincerely,
>Michelle
Hari Sampath 800
07-25-2001 01:33 AM
Sai Baba expose story :
Dear All,
Please check http://www.salon.com for a wonderful expose story on Sai Baba done by Michelle Goldberg.
It is a 4 page cover story, and Michelle has really done a great job.
Thanks Michelle, on behalf of all ex-followers of Sai Baba.
The story is the first exposure of any kind to a significant audience in the US, and I am informed today by Michelle, that it will be appearing in other newspapers/magazines as well.
Hari Sampath.
A Sparrow 799
07-25-2001 12:33 AM
In response to message 797: sarf, some of us believe that raju can transmute the energy of his devotees into the power it takes to perform certain paranormal acts. It's a sort of vampirization of the life force of others.
A Sparrow 798
07-25-2001 12:29 AM
Hey sarf, did you ever read "The Autobiography of Malcolm X"? In it, MX describes how Elijah Mohammed, the head of the Black Muslims, appeared as a visable physical being to him in prison. EM was hardly a holy person; quite hateful actually, as well as being a bit of a billy goat sexually. But, he must have had some of those charismatic and somewhat cult-leaderish qualities that seem to accompany that sort of ability.
Many shamans can bilocate. Even ordinary people sometimes do so while sleeping. When I was a child I awoke in the middle of the night once to see my 2 yr. old brother standing by my bed looking at me. The room was well lit as the street lights shone through he window. I looked over at his bed, and there he was, fast asleep. That sort of thing is not so unusual.
sarf 797
07-25-2001 12:09 AM
Questor wrote: "If ssb has powers, it is because people give him powers. "
I have never heard of this theory that people can actually 'give' someone miraculous powers. How can people give something they themselves dont possess?
We are not talking of worldly powers or charisma here. No one claims Hitler possessed such 'powers' as SB.
Questor 796
07-24-2001 11:45 PM
Take a look at the Amazing Randi website. Do you remember the Wizard of Oz, behind the Green Curtain? If ssb has powers, it is because people give him powers. He is a human, like you and me. His charisma, like many charismatic individuals, has the ability to snowball, as it gains momentum and devotees.
He gave the Cowardly Lion, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Man special powers, only because they believed in him. Otherwise they couln't have gotten the heart, the courage, " the nerve"!!!
Even little starlets become magical after the press gets done hyping them.
Give ssb the "god" thing, and he's off and running.
Hey David Copperfield can make the Empire State Building disappear. I wonder if ssb can do that?????
SAISHOOT 795
07-24-2001 11:37 PM
Prof Harri Sampath;
Replyto your cardiologist hypothesis;
A cardiologist at times can dignose a heart valvular disease by observing a patient with out any scientific investigation, esp. an experienced cardiologist. Like wise a well renouned experienced parapychologist can decipher from others' experiences can vouche for the authencity of the miracles which brought those experiences. More importantly, Prof.Haaroldson spent 10 yrs. observing SB's miracles and he himself experienced some compared to Barry Byerstein, your guru, who writes pounds of rubbish by watching few video clips from his office...and you claim this creature and Lane's work as evidances for SB's miracles are being fraud. You yourself clim to know unique things about SB with out 'ANY SCIENTIFIC EVIDANCE'. You are one of a hypocrate of the highest order, who cavils and coughs from foot dust of your fellow puppis' puffed up ego and idiosy. Pl.look your face in the mirror first..
best wishes...
sarf 794
07-24-2001 10:43 PM
Clearly there are at least two camps in this jihad against SB, as we can see from this board: On the one hand there are those who acknowledge Sai Baba possesses 'powers', but believe these powers come from an evil source.
Or that SB is misusing these powers. This camp would include Tal Brooke, Anthony, Terrie, Sparrow.
On the other hand are those that believe that SB is 'power'less in reality, and all his miracles are sleight of hand magic tricks. This camp would include Bailey, Sampath, Questor, Andries.
Its obvious that the 'power'less camp is heavily outnumbered by those who believe he is 'power'ful (good or evil). Its hard to take them seriously. I dont think any magician could fool so many people, at such close quarters for so long. Just consider the fact that so many who have seen SB do miracles are not just your average joe, but intelligent and successful men who come from all over the world.
sarf 793
07-24-2001 10:20 PM
Hari Sampath wrote: "I have seen several remote phenomena experienced by his followers which were probably genuine, but NOT caused by SB."
How can you be so sure they were NOT caused by SB? Why should we take your word for it? Give us a good reason for taking your word above that of the people who are actually experiencing these phenomena? Dont they always give the credit to Sai Baba?
Why dont such phenomena occur to devotees of Elvis Presley? Only to devotees of Jesus, Sai Baba, Mother Mary etc?
Hari Sampath 792
07-24-2001 06:25 PM
Reply to Hairy Samputt :
>>Hari Sampath Minus Sai Baba Equals To Zero<<
This means that Hari Sampath = Sai Baba.
Since you worship , Sai Baba as God, I take it you equate me to your God...
Thanks , My Blessings to you :-)
>>Baba's Miracles.
In fact, all doubts and criticisms about Sri Sathya Sai Baba's miracles of creating many kinds of objects are absolutely baseless and false. The researcher himself has seen many of these miracles of Baba during the last 24 years inside Baba's interview room and outside at Prasanthi Nilayam, Brindavan and Delhi. <<
The "reasearcher" has "seen", but my question was has the researcher researched scientifically ? As I had asked Dr Sabapathy Sive on this board (after which he didn't answer and went away, like most Sai Baba devotees), if a renowned cardiologist takes a look at a patient visually from a distance of a few feet and says "he has a specific cardi vascular disorder", is that a scientific and professional opinion ? NO, it is NOT. It is just a layman's opinion.
So this business of repeatedly quoting Dr Haraldsson and his "research", by Sai Baba as well as his devotees to "validate" Sai Baba's "miracles" by scientists, does not hold water.
>>The miracle-making power of Baba is not fading or weakening; the studies of Professor Haraldsson and Professor M.N. Das have made it amply clear. <<
How ?? Give the scientific methods they used if you want to furnish this as scientific evidence .
>>It is also likely that since Baba had praised the Prime Minister Narasimha Rao unequivocally and appealed to all people to support him, this might have offended some leaders of other political parties and the original tape might have been tampered with to defame Baba<<
Yes Sai Baba praised Narasimha Rao to the skies, and later it was discovered that Narasimha Rao was actually bribing other people to stay in power during that very week that Sai Baba praised him. The member of parliament who channeled the bribe was also a big Sai Baba follower. Narasimha Rao went on to be the first Indian Prime Minister to be convicted in a court of lay, for corruption and bribery charges, and is facing a prison sentence of 4 years now. No wonder Sai Baba praised him.
By the way there is no way that anyone could have ever tampered with the tape from Doordarshan. Narasimha Rao was the PM at that time, also holding