to links pageThis document contains posts 1594-1637 from the Anthony Thomas Quick Topic discussion board. These are the final posts from this board. (Another QT board was started in August 2001.) Posts are in reverse order. To follow the conversation, read from bottom to top.
Anthony Thomas 1637
08-19-2001 02:25 AM ET (US)
August 19th, 2001
Welcome to the sai baba - anti christ? board.
This board has now changed to a new Quick Topic board of the same title. This has been done for easier administrative purposes.
The new url is
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6
Although no further posts will be accepted on this board, it will continue to be shown for some time - so if you lose the new board url, please return here to note it again.
If you should ever have any difficulty accessing the new message board or it fails in any way, please go to website
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/discussion.htm where it will list a new topic board url.
All the previous posts from this board from its inception to August 19th 2001 will be posted for viewing purposes up on the website: http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/discussion.htm
For those people who would like to know how other ex-devotees have coped with the leaving process, please go to website:
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/index.htm and section entitled 'Words of Hope for Ex-Devotees'
We look forward to hearing from you on the new board.
Topic adminstrator
A LIST OF WEBSITES dedicated to the expose of the real truth about sai baba.
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/index.htm
http://www.geocities.com/p_holbach
http://www.sathyasaivictims.com
http://turn.to/the_findings
http://www.salon.com/people/feature/2001/07/25/baba/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-cult-support
http://www.exbaba.nl
http://www.vancouversun.com/newsite/news/010227/5007932.html
http://www.delphi.com/fuzzyhair
http://psg.com/%7Eted/bcskeptics/sbmir/db-book.html
http://www.stelling.nl/simpos/shree_sai_baba.htm
http://vclass.mtsac.edu:940/dlane/saidebates.htm
http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/religion/sai.htm
http://www.sokaren.se/INDEX135.HTML
http://www.ascension2000.com/baba1.htm
http://www.alerte-sai.com/ (French)
http://www.sekty.dominikanie.pl/ Polish
http://www.geocities.com/descubrimientosSB/ Spanish
http://www.multimania.com/tussier/saibaba.htm French
http://home.hetnet.nl/%7Eex-baba/ Netherlands
http://geocities.com/the_sai_critic
Go to 'Summary of The Findings' and one can on the bottom of that page download The Findings version March 24, 2000.
http://www.sekty.net/Data/Materialy/Baba/ebabamenu.php
Andries 1627
08-18-2001 04:31 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-18-2001 04:36 PM
Anne's Rules For Recovery For Ex Ardent Devotees
Anne came from a Christian cult and would be glad to correspond with anyone who wants to share. The 'wave thing' that Anne writes about is a form of the emotional pain than can be felt physically.
Kind regards, Andries K.D.
Anne:
This is NOT the way I did my recovery, it is more the way I WISH I'd done it... but I did catch on eventually. If I had it to do over I would:
1) Give myself plenty of time & space to grieve my losses. When you leave a cult you leave behind something that was a huge part of you daily life, thoughts, emotions and actions. Not to mention all of the relationships that are suddenly severed. When all that is gone, there is an immense void. Don't be quick to try to stuff something else into it. Don't censor your own feelings. Grief hurts, but it heals, and it diminishes over time.
2) Take the time to realign my beliefs. This works better when the grief is not so acute. Bring everything you were taught out into the light and examine it. A journal comes in handy. Look at every so-called truth you accepted in the cult, item by item. Ask: Do I still believe this? Why or why not? What is wrong with this belief? How has holding this belief affected my life, and does it still have power over me? Is there some real truth that this belief distorts? Where can I go for more information on this issue so I can decide for myself?
3) Consciously place the cult experience into the context of my life. What inner needs (if any) drew me to the group? Is it part of a larger pattern in my life that needs to be changed? (Note this is not true of everyone who has been in a cult, but for me it definitely was.) What did I learn from this experience? What good things have come out of it? How will I use what I've learned?
4) Not allow my heart to get hardened; for then the cult truly does win! Learn to forgive, and that forgiveness and acceptance are not the same thing.
I don't know if any of this will help with the wave thing. That may just be the way you as an individual experience grief. Be very patient with yourself -- as others have said, it takes much time. 20 years later I still deal with it from time to time. Good has definitely come from it, as I am able to help some others now.
Love, Anne
Anne Briggs <ABriggs@IOL21.com>
Anthony Thomas 1626
08-18-2001 03:21 PM ET (US)
I thought they were two different people because I saw a post from Said thanking Afshin for all his hard work - unless I imagined it! Drunk again!!
Terrie,
I haven't actually mentioned leaving, but seeing you have - I do have to work away from home for a while. I will still be around for a week plus. I was going to mention it later, of course.
The board will continue to be suitably monitored.
Balaraman Suresh 1625
08-18-2001 03:14 PM ET (US)
Dear Terrie
<<O.K. Suresh, so you're a genius with languages! :) :)>>
You are not far from the truth,my Zodiac sign is Aquarius,having come to the country of oppurtunities,i may as well end up in the Hall Of Fame.Modesty has never been my virtue.....OK guys,just having some fun.
Who knows Parthi Babas eventual fall will be due to folks like us.:) :)
Terrie 1623
08-18-2001 03:06 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-18-2001 03:07 PM
To Andries, Aura #1618, Anthony #1619,
Posts 1618 and 1619 are really good posts to put on the Sunrise "Hope for Ex-devotees" page. I'm sure we'll see them there. Andries, I know that you've been very concerned about how to detach from sb, so I hope you've seen these posts.
Anthony, before you leave, can you tell us how you feel about emphasizing the recovery process for ex-devotees when the subject comes up on the board?
This board will be switching over to a new board tomorrow. But this discusson can be continued. It's just like turning the page of a book. The rest of the book isn't going to go away.
Balaraman Suresh 1622
08-18-2001 02:51 PM ET (US)
Dear Anthony
Said and Afshin are one and the same person to my knowledge,you seem to be addressing them as two different people in your posts.Can you tell us more about your personal encounters with Parthi Baba whatever level or planes,seems quite interesting your experiances i mean.
Balaraman Suresh 1621
08-18-2001 02:25 PM ET (US)
I wish to express that,neither do i love Parthi Baba nor do i hate him.These two are vital energies for human existence,why to waste.Many people from the pro Parthi Baba side get offended especially when i seem to air my speculations or gut feelings,am i not entitled to my opinions and feelings.I may be 100% right or 100% wrong.I feel very comfortable that a board like this exists and being moderated by Anthony and i suspect by Terrie too.Time and again both have dealt with the spammers effectively,and my personal congrats to both.:)
putaipandit 1620
08-18-2001 01:59 PM ET (US)
ok.sure. "we" can do what you want. sure might be right for someone like aura tho'. you know? switch the false for the real.
Anthony Thomas 1619
08-18-2001 10:51 AM ET (US)
Questor
Re putaipandit post 1604). I personally don't agree with you that the message was just saying "Life is a struggle between the forces of dark and light, good and evil. "
I found much more in that post. Also he was quoting someone else. And, although personally I enjoy a simple way of expressing things, I do understand that we are all different. Some people need things expressed in a way they can accept more readily. Some people need a perfect technical understanding, others an intellectual approach, some pure simplicity. Some people don't need words at all and experience truth through the energy of something.
Aura re 1618
You have made a good point and I have been thinking for some time that more needs to go up on a website about how ex devotees can handle leaving. I have asked on odd occasions for people to submit their stories of how they have managed with this, but it hasn't produced much. Pity, as I think it would really help. It is a major area to assist with.
There was a thing up on Keenan's website about using universal law to do it. I gave it to some ex's and they found it extremely effective. I have a copy of it still from that board. I will send it to the Sunrise website and see if they want to put it up. I hadn't sent it before, because it is a bit unusual. But if it works, what the heck!
Perhaps people don't feel they have much to contribute on this, but every tiny bit will help. I recall on the board at Keenan's time, a chap called Peter put a great handling technique up. It wasn't related to another guru or religion. I agree that we do need to be careful we don't lead people into another cult's techniques. However, surely things like visualising flooding one's aura with light can't be deemed 'cultish.'
Possibly the first thing is to realise is the action of leaving is not bad in any way. People are leaving a physical identity and going straight to God/Source/Creator instead. A true God would naturally always be in agreement with going direct to Source/God/Creator. Even if God happened to be incarnated, from 'his' point of view there would be no difference whatsoever is making our divine connection in a straight line to the source of creation- instead of via an incarnated 'source of creation.'
We need to take our power back and take responsibility for our own lives -from the perspective of being part of the Creator consciousness and make a pure universal connection again to the divine source of the universe - however each person sees that.
Early on, while the whole thing is being processed and people are trying to get out of his energy, I think it is a good idea to realise there is an energy link to him via the use of his name, ash, books and picture. Personally, I would suggest getting rid of the lot and not to just put it in a drawer. And don't use his name. Find another name, preferably not giving him any reverence or power, if you have to discuss him. And while discussing him, stay detached and don't make any connection to him.
This is not for anyone to have fear of him, for truly he is nothing - unless he can incite the fear of the wrath of God into you. Light is senior to everything. With a pure intention of light in your heart, he is as an ant underfoot. Totally powerless. NOTHING IS STRONGER THAN LIGHT and in that light, we are invincible.
Saishoot.
We have no doubt whatsover that sb is extremely rich and being given tons of money all the time by the rich devotees he has control over.
aura 1618
08-18-2001 10:00 AM ET (US)
Anthony, you said: "I thought I was aware of the scale of anguish they must go through, but I see it is greater than I thought. I had thought most of the difficulty would be in trying to get out of his energy field. I knew people would also have to contend with the betrayal, feeling stupid, leaving a supportive group with a common bond, losing many friends, losing the physical face of God, the fear that maybe you really are leaving God and being damned forever, and so on."
How does one even begin to get out of his energy field after 10, 15 0r 20 years? It's frightening, the task ahead!Where does one even begin, after placing ones trust entirely on one person in this entire world and thinking of him as God? It is scary, to say the least.
Questor 1617
08-18-2001 09:56 AM ET (US)
putaipan, your message is simple. Life is a struggle between the forces of dark and light, good and evil. That is what St. Athanasius, and St Anthony and all the great humans said.
Unfortunately, you have to say everything in a complex way, perhaps to make yourself feel better...
Bye,
-Q
SAISHOOT 1616
08-18-2001 09:31 AM ET (US)
SB GROWS RICH..
One philonthropist from USA has donated 130 million US dollars to SB's trust to run his hospitals and educational insititutions. SB announced that this individual is not known to him before..a total stranger. GUESS WHO HE IS..?
On another observation..I note that your two 'pillars' Tony and Harry have melted away like butter on the frying pan due to the heat...
Anthony Thomas 1615
08-18-2001 06:46 AM ET (US)
putaipandit re 1614 Sorry, please resubmit your post MINUS the recommendations to meherbaba sites.
As I keep saying, we are not going to lead devotees from one guru to another.
putaipandit 1613
08-18-2001 04:17 AM ET (US)
no forest. many trees.
Anthony Thomas 1612
08-18-2001 04:00 AM ET (US)
Don't forget everyone, the new board opens tomorrow
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6
This board will stay up, although it will be non-usable.
Anthony Thomas 1609
08-18-2001 01:56 AM ET (US)
Suresh Re 1606
Quite a gift to speak all those dialects. I wish my gift for languages was anywhere near as good.
But just to point out again please do not get off topic too much. I am sorry to seem so tough about this, especially as your posts are so lovely and informative.
Also please be careful about any links posted. We do not want to lead ex devotees who may be feeling a little lost and vulnerable, to another group. Everyone needs time to stand and regroup their thinking and their life. When the pain is gone and the thoughts are clearer, is the time to approach new things.
Just to point out in your post 1606 there is really only one part that is part of the discussion here. ........."I wonder often,20 October 1940,Parthi Baba declared his avatarhood to the public,yet he could not prevent the Nation being partioned by the British,nor could he stop the Bloodbath that took place in Bengal prior to partition."
Terrie
I have done so very little to help. I wanted to shout the truth about him long ago, from the mountain tops (actually when I first saw his picture I knew) - but certainly later on when I 'met' him - but because my understanding of him is not a view easily understood by others, there was no way to speak it. I always knew it would take devotees to speak out with the truth, in order to have it acccepted. No one else would be listened to.
The real players are those like Said, Ashfin, Glen, Tony, Baileys, and all the others who are doing such a lot including the people that put in all the work on websites.
By the way, I have reading some of the accounts up on the sunrise website (Kyra, Bettina Woolard, Sharon) and have gained more understanding of the incredible pain of the devotees leaving him. I thought I was aware of the scale of anguish they must go through, but I see it is greater than I thought. I had thought most of the difficulty would be in trying to get out of his energy field. I knew people would also have to contend with the betrayal, feeling stupid, leaving a supportive group with a common bond, losing many friends, losing the physical face of God, the fear that maybe you really are leaving God and being damned forever, and so on. But from these reports, I gained more of an understanding of the intense pain you (ex devotees) must go through. It must be its own hell. And it must be gone through. If someone could wave a magic wand it would not help. For out of it, will surely come a greater strength.
putaipandit re 1604
Thank you for your post. It is very revelant.
I agree with almost everything you have quoted. Some wise words in there. My greatest tool in the expose of sb, is that I love him. ( ......"Love is the vital element of profound knowledge, intuitive knowledge.)
Yes, this is the answer - and has always been my intention and goal in the expose of sb. Bring light to that which is hidden and thus render it impotent, i.e. make known sb's true actions and thus remove his power and render him useless. ...... (Light drives out darkness. ....This simple truth is the practical key to the problem .. A demon perceived, i.e. on whom the light of consciousness is thrown, is already a demon rendered impotent.
This bit I both agree and disagree with. (.....The world of evil is a chaotic world - at least, such as it presents itself to the observer. One ought not to enter this jungle if one does not want to lose one's way there; one should be an observer from outsideà"
In my understanding, it would be more accurate if it said ........The world of evil is a chaotic world - at least, such as it presents itself to MOST observers. One ought not to enter this jungle if ONE DOES NOT COMPREHEND ITS PATTERNS, IN CASE one LOSES one's way there. THEN, one should be an observer from outsideà"
Hi Questor - ess
Thank you also for your presence here.
Terrie 1608
08-18-2001 12:21 AM ET (US)
Ref #1604
Yo, Anthony....Your namesake is an illustrious personage. You could not escape your destiny of helping to bring the false god into the light of day!
Terrie 1607
08-18-2001 12:05 AM ET (US)
O.K. Suresh, so you're a genius with languages! :) :) Thanks for the link. Parti baba has said many times that he has to clean up India before taking care of the rest of the world. But India still has so many problems with poverty, pollution and political corruption....despite its great spiritual contribution to the world.
Balaraman Suresh 1606
08-17-2001 11:01 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-17-2001 11:29 PM
Dear Terrie
Thanks for the lesson. :) Apart from English,i know to speak Tamil,Hindi,Kannada,Telegu,Bengali and smattering of Punjabi.India has 27 States and 7 Union Territory under its wing.What is Pakistan today was part of India until Britain obliged the Muslim Community in India at that time by giving them a status of their own.The irony is Islam,as well as Christanity,both are Alien Religions,Hindus had no choice but to assimilate them as part of their existence and quip about Sanathan Dharma etc.
I wonder often,20 October 1940,Parthi Baba declared his avatarhood to the public,yet he could not prevent the Nation being partioned by the British,nor could he stop the Bloodbath that took place in Bengal prior to partition.Mahatma Gandhi was a unique individual in the country and even today,from Gullies to Highways to villages to Cities,every child,adult know about Mahatma Gandhi unlike Parthi Baba,who claims he is GOD.
Finally,Terrie, English is a Foreign Language for me,( despite the fact i studied in an english Medium school from Kindergarten to Engineering),i need to sit for TOEFL to prove that my standard is good enough for the schools here.In a competetive world,we need to compete and that is what i am doing.In fact the English i learnt is Queen's English,but due to the fact i sit with my children to coach them time to time ,i am learning the American style of education too.G_D has been good to me,touch wood. http://healing.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsit....com%2Fchakras.html Good Reiki,Chakras,Aura color etc
putaipandit 1604
08-17-2001 10:13 PM ET (US)
happy valentine's!
(usually don't like to qoute authors i am not familiar with, but i really liked this...keep keepin'on anthony's-)
"One ought not to occupy oneself with evil, other than in keeping a certain distance and a certain reserve, if one wishes to avoid the risk of paralyzing the creative elan and a still greater risk- that of furnishing arms to the powers of evil. One can grasp profoundly, i.e. intuitively, only that which one loves. True, Evil can never be intuitively 'grasped.' It must, however be acknowledged and sent to its appropriate place...
"Love is the vital element of profound knowledge, intuitive knowledge. Now, one cannot love evil. Evil is therefore unknowable in its essence. One can understand it only at a distance, as an observer of its phenomenology. The world of the hierarchies of evil appears like a luxuriant jungle, where you can certainly, if necessary, distinguish hundreds and thousands of particular plants, but where you can never attain to a clear view of the totality. The world of evil is a chaotic world - at least, such as it presents itself to the observer. One ought not to enter this jungle if one does not want to lose one's way there; one should be an observer from outsideà"
____
"Now, here we arrive at an important question: Once artificial demons are generated, how does one combat them, and how does one protect oneself and rid oneself of them? Firstly, how does one combat them? Good does not combat evil in the sense of destructive action. It æcombatsÆ it by the sole fact of its presence. Just as darkness gives way to the presence of light, so does evil give way before the presence of good.
"Modern depth psychology has discovered and put into practice the therapeutic principle of bringing unconscious complexes to the light of consciousness. Because - so it affirms - the light of consciousness renders the obsessional complex not only visible but also impotent. This important discovery of modern psychology is in complete accord with the spiritual reality of the æstruggleÆ of the celestial hierarchies against evil. Because this æstruggleÆ, also, amounts to their presence alone, i.e. to bringing evil to the light of day.
Light drives out darkness. This simple truth is the practical key to the problem of how to combat demons. A demon perceived, i.e. on whom the light of consciousness is thrown, is already a demon rendered impotent. This is why the desert fathers and other solitary saints had so much experience with demons. They cast their light on them. And they did so as representatives of human consciousness in general, for whoever withdraws from the world becomes representative of the world; he becomes a æson of manÆ. And being a æson of manÆ the solitary saint attracted the demons haunting the subconscious of mankind, making them appear, i.e. bringing them to the light of consciousness and thus rendering them impotent.
Whilst St. Athanasius the Great struggled against human errors and depravations in the daylight of his public life as bishop of Alexandria, his friend and brother, St. Anthony the Great, in the solitude of the Egyptian desert, struggled against the demons whose doings in the darkness of the subconscious were stirring up these very errors and depravations. The famous ætemptationsÆ of St. Anthony were not, truth to tell, only temptations where it was a matter of the salvation and progress of his soul, but rather they were, in the first place, acts of healing the humanity of his time from demoniacal obsession. They were acts of sacred magic, bringing demons to the light of consciousness illumined from above, through which they were reduced to impotence. St. Anthony drew demons from darkness to the light of the consciousness of the æson of manÆ He rendered them visible, and thus impotent. A demon rendered impotent is a deflated balloon."
-Valentin Tomberg
Balaraman Suresh 1600
08-17-2001 03:20 PM ET (US)
OK Anthony,i won't respond to those dunderhead's...........
Balaraman Suresh 1599
08-17-2001 03:13 PM ET (US)
Dear Questor(ess) :) :)
##Suresh, I like your posts; though you seem to be a faithful person, you have developed a sense of independence about it, and answer only to God. In this way we are very similar, though I am not a Hindu. I also appreciated your post about Hinduism being one of the most broadly expressed religions. That was always my impression.
By the way, I am a female questor(ess).##
I like your post's too.Not that i know everything,but this board seem's to bring some positive attributes of mine,hope you all don't mind when i do get carried away.In fact my wife pointed out to me,that i still have an residual Bhakthi,and that's why this cyber bashing of Parthi Baba is going on.I did not argue,but it did made me ponder.Is she right?Could you tell me,is that it?Does it really matter whether one is a
Hindu,Christian,Islamic,Buddhist,Sikhs....aren't they all just like different river's finally merging in the vast ocean.?
Anthony Thomas 1598
08-17-2001 01:29 PM ET (US)
Suresh
I realise you wish to defend your name and honour, but please be assured that none of us who have been been involved in this expose for a while, take any notice of what the spammers say. We are so used to their lies and attmpts to get us involved in discussion about their useless points.
Balaraman Suresh 1597
08-17-2001 12:16 PM ET (US)
Dear Server Log
You are definitely a 'Server' Serving Parthi Baba ;and a 'Log 'too,a dead one at that,for you, i sympathise and empathise with you,because you are unable to post in your Real Name, but have the audacity to call Hari and myself propangandist.
Is it Us or Parthi Baba,who is 'Propagandaing' his VERSION and BRAND OF "SATHYA<DHARMA<PREMA<SHANTHI<AHIMSA" from the Land Of Bharatha Matha.???????with "LIES,DECEIT,NEPOTISM,FASCISM,HERO WORSHIP,"ABOVE ALL "NARCISM".:):)
Balaraman Suresh 1596
08-17-2001 11:54 AM ET (US)
http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/english.html
Dear Andries
The above website has some cool snaps of Parthi Baba,but,when i saw it,it looks like One Big Bandicoot with Smaller Bandicoot's in tow. :) :) Especially with Black Band on Parthi Baba's Eye's.Well all the Money Parthi Baba collect's have to find some legit way's to further drain Money from Un-Suspecting People.Boy,am i glad that i am out of this sham and artificial spectacle's that Parthi Baba does.
Andries 1595
08-17-2001 11:22 AM ET (US)
>From a new article on http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/english.html (press on news)
'Now I think that his feeling my private parts is not the worst. The worst thing of all I find is the enormous waste of time, the deception, the feelings of huge insecurity and self-doubt that have weighed on me all those years.'
I personally knew the person involved from the Dutch SSB youth group. I never doubted his sincerity.
Kind regards, Andries K.D.
Balaraman Suresh 1594
08-17-2001 10:40 AM ET (US)
Well,to my parent's i am their son,to my teacher's i am their student,to my wife i am her husband,to my children i am their father,to my friend's i am their friend,to my sister's i am their brother,to my brother's i am their brother,to this board member's i am one of them,to Parthi Baba i don't know (6 months back i would have said an ardent devotee),to G_D i am his and he is MINE(a wee bit selfish :).
Hari Sampath,is someone whom i respect for the action's that he has undertaken when he realised the truth about Parthi Baba.In my heart of heart's i consider him to be my younger brother.
To all fellow men/women of the board member's i thank one and all for your personal greeting's in your respective post,Thank You.
To all those people who have been casting aspersion on my
honesty,integrity,and slur on my heritage,i know who i am and where i come from and where i am going to go after casting this body i am presently in.You are most welcome to say and write whatever you want,as that's your right,but that's not the truth about me all the time.
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