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Sai Baba Can't Hide From the Ladies:
How Women See SB in Darshan and some other "Scary Stuff "
From the Yahoo Sathya Sai Discussion Board
Kyra Kitts, LoveandJyoti, Questor404, Terrie109, Hari Sampath
August 2-6, 2001
My name is Kyra Kitts....My own experience with SB, as a woman devotee (now long-time ex-devotee), didn't involve sexual abuse, but was traumatic nonetheless.
My first encounter with SB was extraordinary, as it appears to be for many. It was in a semi-awake/semi-asleep dream vision in 1989 or 1990. I woke out of deep sleep watching with my mind as my heart was literally calling out "SB, come! SB, please come." (I'd seen his picture some time earlier...) Later a friend told me that he was an avatar and that I should try contacting him in dream state, which I did. I don't know why I did so, as I wasn't particularly drawn to SB. Anyway, instantly upon my heart calling out, SB appeared out of the darkness in my semi-dream state rapidly walking towards me.
My eyes were closed. I remember thinking that his solar plexus looked overdeveloped in relation to his small stature, and that his robe appeared too long and that it floated and bounced up and down slightly as he walked up to me. Only later in videotapes was this corroborated. Anyway, to make a long story short, I had a powerful experience that permanently altered my world for the better, and cracked my universe wide open. I became a devotee.
This is why for a number of years after going to India with my husband while 5 months pregnant with my first son, and receiving the coveted interview, I couldn't reconcile my experience during the interview with the prior vision experience.
I didn't realize at the time I was at Puttaparthi that I was strongly clairvoyant. This ability became very marked years later, but was germinating at the time of my stay at the ashram. While I was there bizarre sexual thoughts kept passing through my mind. Once, while walking by the meditation bench behind the mandir, I had a distinct inner seeing of SB standing in his room masturbating, looking out his window, and laughing at the crowd.
I was horrified and thought that if this was inner purification and my garbage was arising, then I must be some sort of pervert. It didn't stop there. When my husband and I were in the outer group interview room with a bunch of other folks, I kept looking at SB thinking, literally "so what's up your dhoti?" Again, I was horrified at my thoughts. SB began to glare at me and started saying something very rapidly to me in what I assumed was Telugu. He ended whatever it was he said with "Bolo!" I figured I'd better "Bolo" and said, I'm having a wonderful time, Swami. He then glared at me harder and said "Bad girl, bad girl! Not good to lie in here." I figured that this was an inauspicious start and felt crushed. After all, here was this guy who had shown up in vision...
Message 2453 Kyra Kitts 8/2/01 7:22 pm
After that, my husband, I, and two other people we knew were taken into the inner interview room by SB. Our friends, long-time devotees, were in bliss. My feeling of revulsion kept growing, however. Finally, SB got around to speaking with me. He predicted that my child would be a son and said about my husband and myself "much fighting." Since my husband and I did not then (and do not now) fight nmuch at all, we just stared at each other bewildered. SB then backtracked a bit and said "just small disagreements", or something to that effect.
He had a greasy look on his face like the cat that'd just swallowed the canary. He asked me what I wanted. I just said "Whatever your will is, Swami", thinking inside that what I wanted was a son
and that I didn't trust his prediction and that I found him perversely sexual in some way I coudn't define. He kept glaring at me.
That was basically it, but when I found out directly a year or so later from a friend in my local center that he'd been sexually molested by SB in his teens several times, everything clicked into place. I'd been picking up on SB's pedophilia during the interview, and he was aware of it and didn't like it.
Strange, that one human could demonstrate such extremes of light and shadow aspect. His sexual/mental abuse and torture of young boys and men is unconscionable. I feel that his scam operation in Puttaparthi should be officially shut down by the Indian government. He's dangerous to the mental health of many young men and boys, and is an embarassing liability to India.
Message 2454 To knkitts : harisampath 8/3/01 12:04 am
It was a wonderful post(s) , you could post slightly bigger messages too, no problem.
You had presented several interesting aspects to be analysed. One of them is certainly the transmission of perverted sexual energy by SB which seems to be mostly received by people who are slightly clairvoyant.
As for myself, I cannot say I completely agree on this point, I am neutral on the subject of whether SB is a person with "negative and dark inner energies." It could be true, but greater proof is necessary.
I am in complete agreement with the fact that SB is a sexual pervert and certainly not an avatar. Whether he can really travel "in an inner dimension" etc is subject to debate, but it is possible...
Message 2455 Re: To Hari from Kyra Kitts 8/3/01 11:32 am
Thanks for your kind reply...
Your point about SB and "dark and negative inner energies" is in fact something I've debated about over the years. I didn't present myself clearly on that point. Bottom line is, I think he's a sexually abusive old man. That's the "shadow" side I'm refering to. I don't want to attribute to him false powers. I don't see him as an anti-Christ figure, which if it were true would then certainly make such powers plausible. Beliefs regarding SB being an anti-Christ in my opinion are fear-based, and fear certainly gives the power of control to the perverted sexual/psychological abuser.
Myself, I'm not Christian and have been with my root guru Ammachi for the last 10 years. Again if making such a statement is insulting, please let me know. It's not my desire to hurt anyone and I have nothing against loving people with Christian beliefs. It's simply not a religion/spirituality that I've ever been drawn to, even though I was raised in that faith.
As to SB traveling in inner dimensions, my inner jury is still out on that one. I find it entirely possibly that my own sincere seeking brought the Divine to me in his form, and that it had absolutely nothing to do with him.
On the other hand, I can't discount the possibility that on some deep level he has a positive side. This is harder to believe however, after carefully reading most of the posts (so far) on the sai victims site. My husband read them too. We were both sickened.
We also know of one case not on the sai victims site where the young adolescent son of a couple prominent in the sai organization was sexually molested by SB, and when the boy was upset and reported this to his parents, the parents were in denial and told him it was for his own good. How any clear-thinking person could come up with such a conclusion is beyond me. I don't se how any more evidence is needed as to SB's sexual perversity. I wouldn't be surprised if he's molested hundreds of thousands of young men and boys. The thought of SB trawling the darshan crowd actually looking for male sexual playthings revolts me.
Another point which I didn't bring out fully is SB's psychological abuse of women, which again in my opinion can be as devastating as sexual abuse. It's clear to me upon observation of his treatment oy myself and other women at Puttaparthi when I was there that SB is a misogynist who truly hates women. I'm curious as to how many women would be willing to report their own psychologically damaging experiences either in this club or on the sai victims site.
Lots of love, Kyra
P.S. My husband is also that blond young looking type (his Swedish genes are very apparent in his appeaance), and there's no doubt in my mind that SB was attracted to him. He forced padnamaskar on Chris by pushing his head down to kiss his feet even when Chris was hesitant. I was denied padnamaskar with a vehement negative shake of the head.
Message 2463 questor404 8/5/01 1:34 am
Hi Kyra, I read your recent posts with great interest. I was not a devotee, but had a friend who was and is. The first time I saw sai's picture on the wall I thought he looked rather lascivious, but also evil. I kept my thoughts to myself.
And I never had a vision of sai, nor a dream. I did have a dream of my friend, a European male, transformed from a blondish, pale coloring, to a man with dark skin, like an indian, sitting in yogi style and staring at me with a sort of passive helplessness. In other words, he became an Indian or yogi. Only his blue eyes shone out in their original color.
After speaking with another ex-devotee, I have begun to wonder about these visitations from ssb, which are so common. Is it possible that he uses some form of subliminal communication, such as flashing images in videotapes or in saying things at high-speed in audiotapes. This can be done by inserting frames with ssb in his garb, or inserting words or messages into single frames, that the eye never really registers, but sees unconsciously. This can also be done on audiocassettes.
I know that in the centers, various tapes and audiocassettes are distributed for viewing. This type of tampering and subliminal messaging would blind most people to what he is really doing. It would account for most people's denial of his activities and desires. Ideas and lies are planted in people's minds without their knowledge or approval.
Subliminal advertising was done in this country in the 50's and then was made illegal.
It may not be clairvoyance to see who he really is, but it may be the form of mind control I describe above that is preventing people from perceiving who he really is.
Is it possible??? If tapes are submitted to the police, they have ways of examining and scannning them them for any kind of tampering, or subliminal insertions.
It's worth looking into...
Message 2464 Re: subliminal messages questor404 8/5/01 2:32 pm
Just an addendum to my previous message;
I want to add, that the subliminal messages may have nothing to do with the producers of the tapes per se, but more to do with satya sai baba himself. His expressions, his sleight of hand, his gestures are in and of themselves subliminal.
Kyra pointed this out so incredibly well in her description of his face and body posture!!!!!!!!!!
Body language is more telling than words. It is important when communicating to others to be aware of their body language.
Regarding the tapes however, there is the possibility of tampering by others as well.
All of this is my humble speculation, and of course, my opinion. It is how influence is exerted on others.
Best wishes to all, Questor
Message 2467 Re: To Questor Krya Kitts 8/6/01 2:12 am
I read your message with great interest. I think your point is valid and without a doubt worth exploring. I wonder if anyone's done any such analysis before...I've been out of touch with the sai scene for so long that I haven't kept abreast of anything related.
As to my own vision experience, or whatever it was, the only exposure I'd had prior to it was seeing a photo of SB (from the thick neck up), reading a brief portion of a devotional book on SB by some English fellow and his wife (which I recall as uninteresting), and listening to a devotional SB bhajan tape by a famous woman Indian singer.
I read briefly from the devotional book and listened to the bhajan tape (which I remember as excruciatingly painful on the ears) on the afternoon preceding the night that I had the vision experience. I don't think I picked up any subliminal messages from the book as to SB's appearance or behaviors, and there were no full-length photos of SB in it that I recollect. If your theory is true, perhaps the bhajan tape was doctored with subliminal message(s).
I don't know what to make of the vision experience. This is exactly what happened. I awoke partially at what felt like about 2 or 3 a.m. to listen with my mind as my heart called out for SB to come to me. He instantly appeared out of the blackness and rapidly walked up to me. I saw details about his physical appearance and movement that I don't believe I could have had any way of knowing at that point in my exposure to SB. (Kind of sounds like an exposure to a virus, reading back that last line...) He then walked up to within a few feet of me and the image of his physical presence disappeared. Than I felt as though I'd been plugged into an electric outlet, and that someone was examining my head from the inside out.
I remember thinking "this must be what it's like to be plugged into a 10,000 volt current," (It was only later that I read SB's comparison of himself to a 10,000 volt current.) My head was quite literally vibrating and I was fully awakened from sleep. The sensation was so intense that I kept trying to shake it off, but it didn't go away and must have lasted for several minutes.
I was utterly ecstatic. I felt like my universe had suddenly been opened wide, and that it was indeed possible that miracles as described in the Christian bible were true.
Bear in mind that the year before I'd had a navel orange-sized benign brain tumor successfully removed. I'd never had an overt seizure either prior to or subsequent to it's removal, so if this electrical feeling was a one-time seizure experience I'd have no way of knowing. If it was a seizure, it was one of pure joy. I recall thinking of Joseph Chilton Pearce's book Crack in the Cosmic Egg and that my own perception of reality had certainly been cracked open. :) I was weeping with joy as I sat up in bed and thought that either I'd just received a tremendous grace or lost my marbles, so I'd best take it easy on myself dietarily and rest-wise for the next week or so.
Then with open eyes I saw side by side from left to right in the air in front of me what looked like a small travel bag or money pouch, a Christian cross (which struck me as odd since I wasnt then and am not now Christian), and that circular SB symbol with images of the major religions at the spokes of the circle. These images lingered for 30 seconds or so and then disappeared.
Message 2468 Re: To Questor Kyra Kitts 8/6/01 2:13 am
I also have to point out that although this experience was joyous and opened my life permanently to a larger reality, my experience of SB during it was simply that of a being with great power. There was no sense of his compassion or love then, nor did I ever see any compassion or love demonstrated by him at Puttaparthi--only power.
Lest any devotee reading my experience take this as miraculous evidence of SB's godhood, rest assured that I don't view it in this light. It was my experience and it was extraordinarly transformative and joyful. The SB I met at Puttaparthi didn't reflect this experience at all. SB in the flesh was an arrogant pig.
I have no doubt that SB has highly attuned awareness to energy and is probably clairvoyant to some extent, just as many people are clairvoyant. Clairvoyance is simply no big deal and not a sign of godhood, in my opinion.
Speaking of awareness of energy, my husband had an interesting experience with SB when we were at Puttaparthi. My husband was along for the ride, a scientist with no belief in or expectations of SB.
While sitting in the men's darshan area, Chris decided to experiment with trying to draw SB to him. He sent out a imaginary line of energy from his own solar plexus to SB's solar plexus and sucked on SB's energy. At the instant of "contact," Chris experienced a sensation of electrical tingling throughout his body, and SB immediately turned his head with a jerk from the boy he'd been talking to on the porch of the mandir and stared straight at Chris. That was the day we got the interview.
Again, I don't view Chris' experience as anything miraculous. It was his experience, and not some miracle generated by SB. Chris also remarked that he thought that most of the people in the hall were so busy supplicating and giving away their own energy to SB that it didn't occur to them that SB was sucking it up and storing it away.
At this point, I've come to the conclusion that SB is simply an aging pervert with some highly developed siddhis and an inner sanctum of supporters who are busy creating and maintaining a sacred mythology for him.
Message 2469 loveandjyothi 8/6/01 9:01 am
Thanks so much for sharing. I have reached virtually the same conclusion regarding SB. Every trip to India (there were 4) was a huge disappointment to me. The first trip, in spite of wanting to be pious and pure, my mind kept getting an image of SB's penis. It was VERY disturbing to me and I had to work very hard to rid myself of it. On other occasions, especially when seeing the videos where there are very close facial shots, he has such a sexual, sick sensual type of energy that it is almost revolting.
I, too, believe he must suck up other's energy to some extent. I, too, have had the experience of psychically attracting his attentions. No doubt he is sensitive to the thoughts of others, though he uses these skills to his own advantage.
I appreciate your sharing Kyra. It is very affirming to hear others have had similar experiences.
Love and light, loveandjyothi
Message 2470 To Kyra, LoveandJyoti terrie109 8/6/01 7:55 pm
I don't think there is anything miraculous about sb's ability to manipulate energy and influence devotees. It's just that he knows how to do this and we don't. If we knew enough about energy and matter, it wouldn't seem miraculous at all. We could all learn to use our minds to manipulate and project energy if we had the proper instructions. I expect that it's an exact science.
I also experienced that terrific shot of energy that sb is capable of projecting into the minds of devotees. In a 1997 visit to the ashram I had the "good fortune" to get a front row seat. I was feeling very devoted, and no doubt putting out lots of energy of my own. As sb walked past, he turned suddenly and stared straight into my eyes. I felt a "wonderful" shock of "love" in my brain and felt that I had been forever blessed by the gaze of god himself. Who needed an interviw? Not me! sb had given me an "innerview."
It was only later that I realized that the projection of energy from sb wasn't love. It was a surge of power energy (shakti) that had the effect of an electric shock treatment on my mind. I experienced the same sense of confusion that happens after a medical shock treatment. But I thought I was happy.
For years I had tried to mediate deeply for long periods of time, but could only manage a half hour of attempted concentration while a devotee.
After ceasing to be a devotee, I found it possible to meditate for much longer periods of time and to attain much greater calmness.
Somehow sb manages to capture a part of our brain, and we then live in his space until we escape. This sounds supersititions, but that's the way it seemed to me. I really believe that he places himself in front of the spiritual light within us and creates a block to that light. He has no power over us once we turn away from him.
I also kept picking up sexual energy during darshan. But it took the form in my mind of a small black pyramid. I wonder now if this is the form in which sb stores the energy (including sexual energy) he draws from devotees.
Message 2471 Kyra Kitts 8/6/01 8:52 pm
Thank you so much! Similarly, I've never heard my own experience at Sai Bob's hacienda reflected so clearly as in your own experience. Makes me think there's lots of women who've picked up on the pervert's sexual energy. Hope more of us come out of the woodwork.
Message 2472 Re: To Kyra, LoveandJyoti Kyra Kitts 8/6/01 8:57 pm
YES!!!!!! Everything you say corroborates my own experience competely. If you, lightandjyothi and I are representative of womens' experience of SB, I wonder how many continuing women devotees of the "naughty guru" (as I've heard SB is refered to in New Zealand) are struggling to suppress their own conflict over having similar experiences.
Message 2473 LoveandJyoti 8/6/01 9:06 pm
Very interesting theories, indeed. There may certainly be some truth to them, especially the idea about SB blocking the spiritual light within us.
I, for one, was a very willing participant in my own "brainwashing." I happily placed pictures everywhere I possibly could, read SB books and literature, listened to bhajan tapes whenever I drove in the car, and in general really enjoyed these expressions of what I thought was bhakthi yoga.
Like Kyra, I continue to follow Amritanandamayi. I saw her before I ever became involved with SB and continued to see her even as an officer in the organization and against express orders not to. She remains absolutely enchanting to me.
Because of my experiences with SB, though, I no longer trust myself or my judgement and am very cautious. I don't know if I can ever allow that level of bhakthi for a human being again. Somehow I need to reach out for that Love that is God and express it towards all. Therein lies the rub, of course, as I still have not even forgiven SB completely for the unimaginable harm he has inflicted upon so many, including me. I feel so for all the really wonderful good people who gave, and continue to give, so much of themselves to this false god.
Life was so simple and really magical at times as a devotee. I do miss it. You are right, though, Terrie, that once you turn away, he has no power over you. That has been my experience. I had feared retaliation, but nothing much really happened. Perhaps when he was younger, he had more sidhis than he does now, too. I do feel protected and have a sense that the Absolute/the One has really had quite enough of him and his stuff and is ready to make an example of him and bring it all to an end.
Well, I have babbled on enough, but it does help to share these thoughts with others. Thanks for listening and sharing Kyra and Terrie.
Love and Light
Message 2474 Scary stuff that needs to be exposed Kyra Kitts 8/6/01 9:22 pm
I'm going to come out with the full dirt as I've heard it on Sai Bob, sex cowboy. I'm being flippant to deal with my revulsion as I write, so please forgive my intermittent attempts at humor.
Some years ago now, another woman ex-devotee gave me the phone number of a fellow in California (where I live) who'd taught at SB's school for (unfortunately betrayed) boys at Puttaparthi for many years. I called this fellow up, and he spilled his guts on the condition of privacy. I believe that he was justifiably concerned about repercussions as to his having spoken out, so I'll leave him nameless.
Devotee readers, please trust that what I'm saying is not fictional. I have no desire to incur negative karma by stating lies.
This fellow (X) and I spoke for over one and a half hours. He told me things I'd never imagined of. He said that that SB's brother runs Puttaparthi like a Mafia don, demanding kickbacks and silence in exchange for the economic benefits that having a "guru" on site brings. He also said that the villagers are terrified for their lives because of SB's brother, and that it takes a long time (if ever) for the villagers to trust outsiders and tell them what's really going on.
X told me that over the years a few villagers and college boys came to trust him and told him nightmarish accounts. Several college boys told him of the extensive sexual molestation and swore him to secrecy because they were scared for their lives. Villagers told X that in a few instances SB had also molested women and then had them murdered, and that their bodies were buried in the hills surrounding Puttaparthi. It apparently came to the attention of SB's henchmen that X knew too much, and he told me that a terrified villager told him that he'd heard that X was marked for death and that he had to leave the ashram immediately to save his life.
That statement carries implications that reader can evaluate for themselves. At any rate, X fled Puttaparthi and returned to the US. He told the members of his local center what he'd experienced and was met by deaf ears and denial. He has since reestablished his career in the US and completely distanced himself from the sai organization.
X's sincerity was almost tangible over the phone. I have no reason to doubt him.
I live in Los Osos, California. I do not fear SB. It's taken me years to be open about what I've experienced and heard about the false avatar in whom I once so implicitly believed.
Prime Minister of India, shut Sai Baba's operation down! He is an insult to the true masters of Mother Bharati and a cultural embarassment to an extraordinary spiritual heritage of a nation.