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Thoughts on SB's Discourses
This discussion relates to Brien Steel's article, New Light on SB's Discourses.
Message 452 of 454
Reply Re: The REAL Discourses dark_knight_9 2/4/02 7:51 am
>> Sanjay, I remember a while ago you were convinced that the "official" sai discourses were not what was really said in Telegu. Brian Steel has shown that the official discourses are heavily edited and polished. <<
Good. I'm glad that what I knew long ago has been recognised and documented. After all, anyone who sits there in front of the hairy one with aching legs, not even able to understand what is being said, for sometimes MORE than an hour will naturally be shocked to see that not ALL of your "painful" experience has been documented!
I first found this out when I saw a video if the Gurupurnima 1992 discourse, and I was excited enough to bring down the copy of SS to read it and follow the video. To my surprise, the video was "off-track" from the discourse and I soon lost control. I didn't think much of this because I figured, 'yeah he does talk a lot so maybe much of it is hard to put into readable words,' since SaiB talks in a "conversation" style.
When I visited SaiB in 1993, I was given permission to tour with him to Madras. He regularly gave discourses at Abbotsbury which was near the hotel where I was staying. I attended one of these evening discourses. It was very funny and the crowd laughed a lot, there were loads of people, but I kept silent and I knew that I will read the full discourse when it appeared in SS. When I got back to Englad, I was horrified to learn that the Madras tour was described briefly and that the "essence" of the discourse was relegated to only one paragraph!
Another heartrending prominent experience that sticks out in my mind happened in 1994. SaiB announced that he would give a discourse ONLY to foreign devotees in the now-demolished Kalyana Mantap in Whitefield. I ran swiftly enough after the darshan and was actually right at the front, only a few metres away from SaiB. Needless to say, I savoured the experience immensely at the same time. Another quality about this discourse is that I was actually able to overcome my hearing difficulty and understand this discourse fully because I was able to LIPREAD Anil Kumar.
I thoroughly enjoyed the discourse, laughing at SB's jokes and feeling sad at his criticisms. Even now I still regard it as the best experience of my time with him. Imagine my shock when this discourse was NOT RECORDED AT ALL. Officially, it doesn't exist. It is impossible for me to describe the painful feelings that I experienced at the time, maybe some other time. But really by this time I knew something was afoot. Of course James Redmond and his videos were a blessing, because he provided movies of discourses and had actually taken the time and effort to SUBTITLE the discourses too. Anyone who sees these videos today can "enjoy" them.
An exciting example is the Xmas 1999 discourse where SB gave the "REAL" names of Jesus, Mary and Joseph and many other "details", yet NONE of this was recorded in SS. I suspect that the SS editors were arrogantly condescending enough to allow us to read the mention of the Bible materialisation that year (!).
Now the big question is: WHY? WHY aren't "God's" words being properly recorded? WHY are important details that would bring joy to devotees left out? WHY is the administration lazy? WHY do they publish EDITED versions of discourses? In olden days, we can only rely on the Valmiki Ramayana and the Bhagavatam/Gita to know anything about Rama and Krishna and Their teachings. We know for sure that they may have said and done a lot more than the texts mention.
Now in this day and age when we have pen and paper, telephone, television, fax, Internet, email, etc etc, WHY aren't "God's" words and every minute of his life being properly recorded? These are some of the questions that I asked even as a devotee, and I am still asking them today.
Message 453 of 454 Reply Re: The REAL Discourses dark_knight_9 2/4/02 7:55 am
>> Anyone heard of Jesus being addressed like this by the Romans before??
<< Not likely, since everyone knows how much they tortured him before his crucifixion. It'll be very funny if they suddenly turned around and called him sacred. >>
What can I say, now it just makes me smile. It's crap isn't it? :) <<
COMPLETE crap. :) COMPLETE tosh and garbage. In light of our previous discussion whether SB teaches Advaita or not, even if the discourses WERE transcribed fully and freely available, I suspect that they may STILL be confusing due to SB's unintelligible style of speaking and also because of his HUGE generalisations. TOTAL UTTER CRAP. That's why I'm now on a mission to go through all of these things so that they can be exposed to the world. It will take some time, maybe even years, but it will be done. You can take my word for it. :)
Message 471 of 486 Hariomdas 2/6/02 5:32 pm
You say you do not take Hislop at his word in those cases in which his word differs from that of of your swami. Well and good. We are agreed. I wonder, then, whether you are agreed that we also should not take the translators of sai baba's often less than perfectly constructed discourses at THEIR word. Because, be assured, it IS their word.
Do you know Telegu? I have a poor grasp of it, much alas. However, I have consulted experts in this language, and they all assure me of one thing. The translations you see in Sanathana Sarathi and Spiritual Inpressions are a VERY different matter. Repeatedly, the translations cut out no end of nonsequiturs, ramblings, contradictions, opaque bits, and so on.
Do you take sai baba at his word when, as on countless occasions, he contradicts himself? Do you take sai baba at his word when, as on countless occasions, he tells his pedophilic victims (many of whose affidavits are increasingly being submitted to police forces and governments in different countries) "this is your good chance?"
Akronaction, please spare the thought of springing into a reply to your poor Hariomdas before at least you have CAREFULLY read and considered academician Mr Brian Steel's informative piece on: http://bdsteel.tripod.com/More
This Is a Reply to: Msg 465 by akronaction