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pageThis document contains posts 499-526 from the Anthony Thomas Quick Topic discussion board. Posts are in reverse order. To follow the conversation, read from bottom to top.
526
06-30-2001 03:26 PM
Anupama!!!! Who cares about the Congress? I will still say that sb and his cohorts are all part of a pedophile and charity scam. They can sue me anytime.
Tony O'Clery 525
06-30-2001 12:50 PM
Let us not forget that sb is about molesting, mainly minors, with fellatio and anal penetration. Apart from that he is a liar, deceiver and fraud conjurer with desires.
Anthony 524
06-30-2001 06:59 AM
Andries
Thanks for the post. Just one thing I don't agree with at all. I think 'sb' leads people to 'sb'. Not to God - but away from God. Inadvertently, along the way some people manage to find themselves and thereby find God - but many others stop when they have found 'sb,' thinking they have found God. Perhaps producing quite a time waste on their path of enlightenment.
Anthony 523
06-30-2001 06:53 AM
Beyond the form
I completely agree with every word you say.
And 'sb' is just teaching the same things as have been said a million times before by others. I personally have never written that his material is untrue, as there will be some that is and some that isn't. I have always tried to keep a focus on the character himself.
Like you, I neither have fear or panic as to whether 'sb' is doing this or that or who is controlling the world monetary situation, etc. However, as long as we exist in the universe attached in some way to matter, space and time, there is something called Service. Not something that has to be done, but something that lies deep within the being that calls us on occasion to act. In trust we move with that, sensing that in some way we may be able to help in that moment and that it is in Divine order to do so.
Terrie,
Yes, really useful techniques. Nice and simple and not attached to a specific group. The more the merrier, I reckon. People really can need tools to extract themselves, once their energy is really integrated with his.
Anupama
That will be a pity for you if you can't use different aliases!! Interesting that you should talk of messages getting deleted from devotees, seeing that only ONE devotee has had a couple of their messages deleted from this board and that was after several warnings. Wouldn't be you by any chance, would it?
By the way this board is not 'for devotees'. It is for devotees who have some doubts and are genuinely seeking other viewpoints to examine for themselves the possibilities he is not as he claims. It is not a board for devotees who are not seeking and only wish to extole the virtues of their master. They can do this on their own 'sb boards.
Andries 522
06-30-2001 06:36 AM
Ref 519 about Karmic suicide when not quietly leaving SSB
Dear Anupama,
Please read my response that I posed in devotee site unity in diversity, message 136.
Dear Chris, Hans & all,
In my humble opinion if we have faith in the love and righteousness of the Creator we would not follow Ram Das Awle's line of thought in http://www.saibaba-and-sex-aclearview.com with regards to karmic suicide of people who condemn SaiBaba and drag away devotees. It's difficult to recognize an Avatar. And some people who oppose SaiBaba are sincerely convinced that they are doing a good job. I have to admit though that they forget sometimes that the ends don't justify the means because of their strong emotions with regards to this issue. Besides some ex-devotees have had a strong emotional bond with SaiBaba and hence it's very difficult for them to leave just like that. So in general the Good Lord will forgive most opposers.
I think God doesn't care so much which guru people follow as long as the guru leads people to God. SaiBaba clearly does that or has done that for me and many other people. But other gurus do the same. The teachings of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa for example don't differ much from SaiBaba's teachings. SaiBaba has said that too that there are many ways to God. I think that Ram Das puts too much weight on the decision whether to follow SaiBaba or not and therefore creating unnecessary tension for the spiritual seeker. This tension may be an impediment for spiritual progress! More important than choosing the 'right' guru is I think individual effort. Like steady sadhana as SaiBaba said to Hislop in 'Conversations with Sathya Sai Baba'. If God is love why should He be partial?
(irrelevant paragraphs deleted)
Love, Andries
Beyond the Form 521
06-30-2001 05:41 AM
Terri - I think you meditations are very useful and uplifting. I shall work with them. Nice gift - thankyou!
I am not a practising Christian, but was brought up with Christian principles and know the bible. I think this is one of the very interesting saying of Jesus -
Luke 11 û 33 to 36
No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, the whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body is also full of darkness.
Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee is not darkness.
If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.
Beyond the Form 520
06-30-2001 05:28 AM
I read with interest Anthony's story of the couple who had money difficulties and were advised to use the kundilini energy to create it. As I understand it, there is only one energy - kundilini - it is the creative force of this dimension. So this linking up of sexual energy to manifest money in their lives seems very logical to me. When I read postings to this site I am struck by the experiences that are presented as Sai Baba's "evil" when, to me, people have been putting into practise things that are not unique to Sai Baba who is teaching the same old stuff as everyone else really. The teachings are Vedic - he is teaching ancient Vedic principles which are very useful in coping with life. If you are Western, then it looks like Sai Baba is teaching something new and radically different and you can fuse "Sai Baba" with "the teachings" which is a pity. If you already know Hindu or Vedic wisdom, it is less of a problem, but then you have the knowledge to know that what he is teaching is not unique, and you can look at the man separate from "the teachings". If you attack Sai Baba's teachings - you attack Hinduism and Vedic principles, which in view of their age and profound understanding of the way things work, is a pity. You chuck the baby out with the bathwater!
Fundamentalist Christians believe Sai Baba is the "Anti- Christ" if they have heard of him - and then , again, they believe that Ghaddaffi (or someone else) is - depending on their own ideas. Fundamentalist Christians believe that Hinduism is a satanic religion which is attempting to take over the world. Statistically Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world at the moment and the Christians and Muslims have faced each other aggressively since the Crusades! So what's new?
Somehow, in me, I find no panic or fear about whether we have an "Anti Christ", whether Hinduism is going to take over the world, whether we are being "siphoned" by Sai Baba, manipulated by the media, or controlled by the New World Order. There is some Divine Power that is actually in control. We can protest we are under the control of many external things while we try to avoid our inner world. If we are innerly nurtured by the God of our own understanding - we become immune to fear mongering. The couple in Anthony's story took back their own power when, uncomfortable by what was happening - "We decided to dismiss his energy from our life and the influence of SB was gone, literally."
Indian Gurus have made vibhuti, lingams, "miracles", made predictions (accurate and inaccurate), taught Vedic principles, had devotees, ashrams, boy lovers, no lovers, health, sickness, poverty and riches and "appeared" to their devotees for thousands of years - long before Christianity began. They all taught that the law of karma controls us - or as Jesus put it "what ye sow, so shall ye reap." I believe this is the one happening we can be certain of!
This applies to YOU and to ME...
And THAT'S the scariest stuff of all!
Anupama 519
06-30-2001 05:03 AM
Terry, In the last 517 messages on this board I haven't seen anything that resembles "kindness". Foul abusive language, unproven allegations presented as fact, rumors presented as proof. People who have never been to Darshan at Putaparthi, vetting this board and posing as experts, pompously lecturing and voicing opinions without a shred of experience to back them up, other than some wild imaginings and references to furtive dark personal "feelings". This is madness pure and simple.
Those who don't leave quietly REALLY DO commit karmic suicide. And what of those who were never in to begin with but just want to attack and destroy. Well,... life can become UNBELEVABLY hard and hopeless without the Grace. Karma is impersonal and automatic. You do to yourself. Plant slander and abuse, harvest despair. It's by your own hand that you feed yourself.
You say you want dialog with devotees but when a devotee posts here Anthony quickly deletes their message. You want a real two sided dialog then show your willingness to interact with devotees by not deleting my posts. Otherwise you reduce the credibility of this board to the level of just another one sided propaganda, hate, and slander site.
If you want to have a larger audience, why don't you delete disgusting and vulgar language, (such as "Cock & Bull" and "Tony O Cleary"). No one who views this board for the first time would ever bookmark it after seeing the juvenile crudities, posted by the vulgarians. Such language is also a violation of Quick-Topic's "Terms & Conditions of Use", and is sufficient grounds for termination of this board.
By the way,.. new "Privacy" legislation working it's way through congress, will make operators of web sites, discussion boards and chat rooms accountable, and pseudonyms illegal.
--Anu
Anthony 518
06-30-2001 04:12 AM
Hi Terrie,
I have successfully used white light for many years as a protection in situations that were tricky. There is a technical reason apparently for its use. It seems that as white is a combination of all the colours of the rainbow it contains a special high energy vibration. We know things emit unseen energy frequencies such as TV sets, radio, microwaves, etc. Each colour (and sound) moves at a specific frequency or wave length and white is very fast. Dark colours and energy have a slow moving frequency. When you visualise white, you are putting a fast rate of vibration into a slower moving vibration and the faster energy has the capability of negating the slower and heavier energy. I have also found the colour gold to be highly protective.
Said and Hari
I have quite a store of old messages from the Keenan days that contained pertinent points. If you don't have such a page already, may I suggest a section on your site where people can send you their personal story or experience, even if this is just a short statement. I think this really helps people. Especially as these things often explain the fears and trauma they are going through in trying to leave 'sb'. I could send you these I have retained, so they aren't wasted.
Terrie 517
06-30-2001 01:29 AM
Anupama?? Another alias, no doubt. Why is it that so many ssb devotees heap abuse on others, accusing them of the very traits and psychotic behavior they themselves display?
Anupama, do you have ANY idea how ridiculous you sound??! Please take your blustering back to the Yahoo boards. This is a civil board. We may disagree, but we try to do it kindly.
Anupama 516
Terrie 515
06-29-2001 04:52 PM
Edited by author 06-29-2001 04:56 PM
Recently an ex-devotee said to me, "I wish I could forget sb." Today I came upon a page in a book for children, "Mountains, Meadows and Moonbeams" by Mary Summer Rain. (Hampton Roads, 1992) It seems to me that this exercise would be helpful at times for most of us.
THE WHITE LIGHT BEAM OF PROTECTION (page 32) "You have a very powerful light. It's something very much like a flashlight in your head. Nobody else can see it because you use it from your mind. It is filled with the White Light of Protection and it never runs out of Light. It always works because it can't break. You always have it with you.
Sometimes when you are alone or in a scary place, you don't ever have to be afraid because when you aim your White Light Beam of Protection around, it makes you safe and sound." by Mary Summer Rain
Terrie 514
06-29-2001 04:44 PM
A MEDITATION EXERCISE
This morning as I sat in silence, I felt concern for a devotee friend. Immediately a meditation exercise popped into my head to give her. I tried it with amazing results. We can all try this, devotees and ex-devotees alike. Actually, I'm very interested if belief alone gives the results or if the results are the same for devotees and ex-devotees. Here's the exercise:
Sit quietly and focus at the spiritual eye (the point between the eyebrows, a little back in the head, the "origin" of the nose.)
Picture a spiritual being, saint or sage (Jesus, Yogananda, an archangel, goddess Durga, etc...whoever appeals to you.) Set the entire standing figure in the spiritual eye. Focus on the face.
Now imagine the figure shining brilliantly, his (or her) entire being composed of brilliant white light. (Note if indeed the figure is brilliant light, especially the face.)
Now place sai baba in the spiritual eye. See the entire figure, focus on the face if you can (especially if you're a devotee), but you don't have to. If you're an ex-devotee, a shadowy figure will work with the thought that it is sb. Just keep the standing figure there. Now try to make this figure totally white brilliant light.
What do you see??
Then go back to your chosen saint or sage filled with vibrating brilliant light. The brilliant light resides in your spiritual eye and protects you.
Maybe you'd like to report back here about the results of this exercise. I'll give my experience later. Try this, all!! It's really interesting.
Love,
Terrie
Anthony 513
06-29-2001 11:56 AM
Andries
If you read something that does not feel right for you, just dismiss it. I do. If it doesn't really resonate as truth or I haven't sensed or experienced it for myself, I just let these things pass on by. Maybe it is someone's truth, but if it isn't true for me, I let it go. If we didn't do this, we would end up believing everything we read in the newspapers or is said by politicians/big business/chemical companies/ etc.
LOL
Yes, I do feel sad if I think material or sites may be lost. So many heart pourings over the years have been posted, so much valuable material that can really help people trying to leave. Most of the people posting here have told their story in past posts, often many times. You can only write things up so many times. So, yes, the sites that are up (and they are quite numerous and growing) are very precious.
It was totally your thoughts and words about followers of 'sb' not being successful and happy. Certainly not what I said! I bet there are tons of devotees who are both. I also believe there are lots who aren't.
Maybe you personally have not experienced a increase of sexual attention, but others have. Can you realise that just because you haven't, doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong in what they have felt? Perhaps in some it increases the level of repression needed. Maybe tons of people do not exp. any of this, but many do. This isn't an 'all or nothing' game. Some people have certain exp. and others have different ones. We are all human and respond in different ways.
*******
Just one story of a sexual nature from people I know personally.
"When we were contacted by SB it was in meditation and before we consciously knew of him. Some people had come to the studio and commented that they were devotees of SB. It meant nothing to us. They continued to visit our studio sporadically and months later one brought a book to loan us. We had been asking for help to balance our financial affairs. SB appeared to us, saying the secret was in the kudalini energies and how they were raised. He had advised us to treat our sexual activity as a meditation, raising a whirlpool of energy that could be directed toward creation of funds, among other things. I was uncomfortable sometimes, as he would be poised at the top of the whirlpool during some orgasms but I dismissed my gut feelings even after finding out our messenger was incarnate because he claimed to be the master over manifestation in our world, even in the literature. We were not moved to "join" but had some pressure to do so û with people bringing us some ash. But we were strong in our feelings that it was not our path to join any one movement.
Then we spoke and when I mentioned SB you said "Have you confirmed the energy?" and I realised we had not .... just accepted it into our life. We discussed it at great length and my husband was worried of offending, but logic told me that we should be more questioning and discerning. We decided to dismiss his energy from our life and the influence of SB was gone, literally, as even a picture given to us by one of our customers of SB seemed to disappear. (It showed up again later in our bookcase so was not a mystical occurence.)
Our financial balance began to happen, due to planning, hard work, and the business was able to thrive, but in leaps and bounds after our release from SB. We feel that the information that you sent to us is correct as the wording was so similar (..."raise the kundalini...") and the interest in sexual energy. I now suspect we were being siphoned but it no longer matters as we have learned to not be so open to exploitation.
Our experience does indicate to me a certain psychic power which the information you sent seems to be trying to totally negate. My feelings on this are that any one of us who has people lending their energies to us in a big way will become psychically powerful, but this is not a spiritual manifestation. We were initially awed by the phenomena, equating that with spiritual prowess. Now we know the tools are toys if being abused."
Cock & Bull 512
06-28-2001 11:42 PM
http://www.sathyasai.org/discour/1999/d990215.html
The Principle of Hiranyagarbha
Date:15 February 1999
Occasion:After Shivarathri
Place:Prashanti Nilayam
>>Past is past, the future is uncertain, only the present is in our hands. >>It is the foremost duty of man to live in the present and share his joy >>with his fellow beings.<<
So then why the bloody hell is he always carping about Ramayana,Mahabharata,Jesus Christ,Allah......
The title of the speech should read as The Principle of HIRANYA GABRAH(Eternal Fear).
Further....
>>This is present in every body fs spiritual heart (hridaya) and is on the >>right side of the body. The principle of hiranyagarbha is spread all over >>the body. It assumes a form when I will it. Whoever saw this lingam at the >>time of its emergence will not have rebirth.<<
If people who have seen the Lingam will not have re-birth,then HOW COME RAJU SAYS THAT HE WILL BE BORN AS PREMA SAI???????????Utter non-sense Raju is uttering.But then when has Raju been telling the truth in his discourses and intercourses.?????????????
Cock & Bull 511
06-28-2001 11:26 PM
http://www.sathyasai.org/discour/1968/d681123.htm
>>The establishment of righteousness (dharma): that is my aim. The teaching >>of dharma, the spread of dharma: that is my object. These miracles, as you >>call them, are just a means toward that end. Some of you remark that >>Ramakrishna Paramahamsa (an Indian saint) said that yogic powers (siddhis) >>are obstructions in the path of the spiritual aspirant (sadhaka) Yes, >>yogic powers may lead the spiritual aspirant astray. Without being >>involved in them he has to keep straight on. His ego will bring him down >>if he yields to the temptation of demonstrating his yogic powers. That is >>the correct advice which every aspirant should heed. But the mistake lies >>in equating me with a sadhaka, like the one whom Ramakrishna wanted to >>help, guide and warn. These yogic powers are just in the nature of the >>Avathar -- the creation of things with intent to protect and give joy is >>spontaneous and lasting. Creation, preservation, and dissolution can be >>accomplished only by the Almighty ... no one else can.<<
So Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was trying to equate Raju to a sadhaka??Raju has unneccessarily provoked sathwic souls,for which Raju will be punished very dearly.
Cock & Bull 510
06-28-2001 11:11 PM
http://www.sathyasai.org/discour/1968/d680517.htm
>>Some persons, even those who have reached a certain stage of leadership >>and authority, have started exchanging the Vedic formulae and the >>principles of Indian (Bharathiya) culture for lucre, selling them, in >>fact; and westerners too are inclined to purchase them! These truths and >>discoveries are not merchandise to be sold and bought. Therefore, I am >>going to western countries soon, in order to apprise them of their real >>worth and put a stop to this bargaining. Already, the authorities of >>universities in the United States of America and the leaders of the >>students of those universities have written that they are eager to welcome >>me and they have drawn up programs for me. It was only yesterday that >>passports for my visit to Africa have been brought, praying that I may >>visit those countries soon; I am proceeding to Africa before the month of >>June.<<<
The above discourse was in May 17 1968,we are today in June 28 2001.Where did all the authorities go who were eager to welcome this deluded Raju???????What a big liar this man has been and continues to be a compulsive liar.Better Raju changes his name to Rakshasa Asathya Raju!!!!!
Cock & Bull 509
06-28-2001 11:02 PM
http://www.sathyasai.org/discour/1963/d630706.htm
"Dikku lenivaniki devude gathi"
"Formerly, when the Govardhanagiri (a mountain) was raised aloft by the little boy Krishna, the cowherd maids and boys (gopees and gopalas) realized that Krishna was the Lord. Now, not one Govardhanagiri but a whole range will be lifted, you will see! Have patience, have faith."
Ya,right.The earthquake which hit Gujarat must then be this Raju's work.LOL LOL.The reason for the earthquake to happen according to Genius Raju is,because man is plundering the earth and extracting OIL,all these disasters are happening.But Raju will travel in his BMW,MERCEDES BENZ ,where this OIL extracted is used by him.Raju is for preaching to others only.But when it comes to his personal needs another set of rules apply "He is God "he can do anything LOL LOL,what Hogwash???
Cock & Bull 508
06-28-2001 08:52 PM
Andries,
Please be patient,its only a question of timing,all your queries with verfiable proof will be given.I will give the names ,addresses for you to verify.Have Shraddha & Saburi.(Faith & Patience)
A Sparrow 507
06-28-2001 03:58 PM
LOL ... You sure remind me a lot of our old friend Dark Knight! Are you guys related, by any chance? (Muffled snicker).
Andries 506
06-28-2001 03:36 PM
Ref 480
Dear Cock & Bull,
Could you please comment on the result of my experiment or write something else that would help to regain my and others' trust in you? Could you send me a sample of the batch of vibuthi with hallucinating effect? Then I can have it tested in a laboratory or try it myself. Please, respond seriously for the sake of the discussion.
Thanks & kind regards, Andries
deeply disillusoned 505
06-28-2001 11:58 AM
My brother wailed shaking the foundations of Brindavan Forgive me oh swami, forgive me He said for his brother made him guilty of not obeying the Order of Silence Swami took this pathetic creature in a motherly embrace Grace flowing Inside the room,he lifted his veil
And the lingam was thrust to quell the sobs
And this is the truth of Sai
Cock & Bull 504
06-28-2001 09:37 AM
>>OK sorry about that again. It's just that too many people on both the pro and anti camps have indulged in so much plain silliness that it is hard to maintain a good discussion and keep some sort of cogent format to it. I still believe that CB is none other than Luvdeglobal. I also believe that he is posing as a devotee under the name "seva_dal". Please correct me if I am wrong, with evidence.
As for the recent postings about vibhuti causing hallucinations etc, it is another of CB's wild theories which have no basis whatsoever. The so-called effects of vibhuti are all in the mind. I have been "privileged" enough to receive vibhuti from Sai Baba on more than one occasion, and to my mundane eyes observed no change whatsoever.
I hope that members of the club are alerted to CB's hysterical and rumbunctious way of speaking, which even he admits as mysterious. I doubt this individual's credentials as a spokesperson for the "dark side" of Sai Baba, highly due to his incoherence.<<<
LOL
At least your gracious enough to admit when you are wrong.You are entitled to your opinion as i am.But i will assure you & other's i compare myself to the lil squirrel in the Ramayana which helped Shri Rama to build the bridge to Lanka in order to save Devi Sita from Ravana and eventually kill him.I have been insulted by so many, now i have a thick skin and just shrug it off.Regarding proof,does Raju give you & other's proof??Raju is a fake,impostor,child molestor,scam king,scum bag,delusioned creep, and above all a Murderer.
Genevieve from PN 503
06-28-2001 02:27 AM
LOL, it's time for Genevieve to sign off. I had a reason for posting what I did. If you have a flat in PN, you may be trying to guess who I am. Two clues: I'm a lady rather than a gent and I'm married.
I leave with the heartfelt prayer that all the PN ladies currently under the spell of the one they believe to be avatar may one day be freed to find the light within themselves.
With love,
A lady who cares
Questor 502
06-28-2001 12:06 AM
LOL . I guess you haven't spoken to Afshin, who himself was molested, since you say you know no one who was. There are lots of e-mail addresses that you can get of individuals who were molested. There is the family in Kentucky or Tennessee. Their son was molested. How about Hans de Kraker? There are so many people. Speak to them.
I have been watching these boards for over a year, and so many letters of resignation have come out with return e-mail addresses, etc. If you don't believe it is your problem, not anyone else's.
You can see the deception on videotape. What more do you need. You say the typical thing that every devotee says; no proof. No, there is proof. You don't want to see it. Devotees don't want to see the proof. That's all...
A Sparrow 501
06-28-2001 12:02 AM
Questor .... Just briefly; first, I had good friends who were devotees. Then, I'd read a lot of the glowing books. My husband saw sb standing at the foot of our bed one night. Several things happened that I considered to be "leelas". Then, he appeared in some of my dreams, which made me feel chosen or honored or something like that. Then I joined a center where everybody was of like mind. By that point I had very few friends who were not devotees as I didn't like to talk about much else.
Could I have been talked out of it at the beginning? If someone I respected and trusted had presented me with a first or even second hand account of what he does, I would have dropped him like a hot potato. Once I was talking to another dev who was very upset because he'd seen a woman on a Christian (Pat Robertson's or someone like that) TV show saying that she had sent her son to sb's school and he had been molested by sb. I told this person not to worry because I was sure it was just part of an plan hatched by right wing fundamentalist Christians to defame him.
LOL 500
06-27-2001 10:46 PM
Questor, which is this other board that you talk of? Would you mind giving the URL of it? Thanks.
LOL 499
06-27-2001 10:30 PM
Hi all. Please forgive me for writing after so long. I have a busy schedule and may not come here every night to write.
Anthony, you said: "There is not a lot of point us getting involved in defending ourselves. The data and experiences we have each had with 'sb' are what the doubting devotee wants to hear. The purpose of the board is to offer a guidance for those who ask for it."
I would actually try to investigate that idea since I would think it is a good idea to display all of your opinions in such a way that it seems to make a nice all-round watertight case. "Defending yourselves" may very well be an option as I am interested to see different individual viewpoints. Also you must remember that all "ex-devotees" who are either violently anti-Sai or disillusioned are in the minority. Always remember that. There is an extremely large number of people who have benefited and are benefiting due to their contact with Sai Baba. ONe might like to investigate why this is so. The explanation that about 110 million devotees are perhaps brainwashed does not look very good.
Also you said: "LOL Obviously you are convinced you are right and naturally by your standard, we all have to be wrong. If there is one thing you don't have - it is 'an open mind'!"
Well I would have to tell you the same thing that I told Said Khorram, that it would not be very wise of you to pose as if you have a psychic connection to my brain and can thus make a judgement as to whether I am open-minded or not. It is highly obvious that you (and possibly the rest of you) think that I am just another "brainwashed devotee" without a clue. Well for your small information, I do have my own grievances with the Sai Organisation, etc. I discovered through personal experience just a little bit of the corruption and nepotism that goes on in the Org, which left me highly depressed and disillusioned. This caused me to leave the Org (in 1998) and to this date I have never stepped into a Sai centre bar one date. Anyway the point is that I am not your typical devotee since even during my time as a devotee I always had quite revolutionary feelings and opinions regarding Sai Baba and other things. And no I never said that I am right and you are all wrong, but I DO think that most of you are relying too much on your own feelings and emotions with disillusionment. I have beena devotee for 10 years and I have been keeping up with this abuse movement for about seven months now, and to date I have not seen a single objective shred of evidence that Sai Baba is guilty of any of the charges that have been put forth against him. I have scoured Keenan's and Afshin's sites (when they were up) and found a heady mix of speculation, distortion and hyperbole as well as some serious inaccuracies. So this is why I say I have an open mind, because if you actually have any solid hard evidence that Sai Baba is guilty then bring it forward for the world to see. Until that happens, I'm afraid I must remain a critic of the abuse movement and it's related strategies and investigations which have amounted to nothing much so far unfortunately.
"You are so 'not looking' at any possibility it is true."
You think? If there is any solid unshakeable proof that Sai Baba is guilty of sexual molestation then please bring it forward.
"Many people, including many current devotees reading this, experience an increase of sexual activity once they connect to 'sb'."
Really? Who? What? Where? Why? When? This is the first I've heard. I sure as hell didn't. My experience is one of repression. It may be caught up with orthodox Hindu culture, but I am not aware of any predominance of sexual attitudes amongst devotees. If you have any choice stories, please share.
"Re maintaining data on other boards. We hardly need to read the information ourselves. We KNOW what is going on."
Sorry Anthony, but I seriously doubt that. Since I hears Sparrow say that she heard from a mere travel agent that nobody goes to the ashrams anymore which conflicted with official reports current and previous, that undermined everything in my view. Indeed, over seven moths of observing the strategies and viewpoints of the individuals involved in this abuse movement, I have found a worryingly high standard of ignorance. I would indeed flatter various intellects by my use of the word "ignorance" since credit must be given where it is due. An alternative word might be 'stupidity'.
"Moving along (LOL?)Far from finished, but none-the-less well and truly on the way to completion of the goal. One day, when you realise what is really going on with this guy, you are going to thank God that we weren't put off so easily and because we cared for our fellow travelers, took the time to help expose 'sb'."
Well this was not meant to me, but since you think that I am "Moving Along" and have addressed me as such, then I may as well reply. I saw what MA wrote and then your answer, and do you really think that being bereft of your two most important websites could count as being "well well and truly on the way to completion of the goal". I would think it was a serious setback. Although I have read the recent posts hinting at a new website and I rejoice. Perhaps it may contain more objective material for the more discerning reader. As for thanking you for your efforts, it remains to be seen how such vanity may be fulfilled.
"Do you really think we read a couple of stories and hop on a band wagon of 'expose' because we have nothing else to do or are some pathethic souls that need some interest in our lives?"
That has been my experience, yes.
"Personally, I lead a very busy, successful, productive, happy and contented life (as you can see, I didn't make a connection to 'sb'!!!!!) and would love to have this area all sorted out so I could leave it be."
Congratulations Anthony, and I am genuinely happy for you. But I do find it highly presumptuous of you to insinuate that devotees of Sai Baba may not be living such contented lives. Of course on certain issues we may agree to disagree but I think that the general consensus may very well prove to be that Sai devotees also live such productive lives, and it is a matter of millions of records that testifies that millions of lives were changed for the better due to contacting Sai, including mine.
"But until it is, I will be there doing what I feel is right in my heart - based on my own personal experiences with this character."
Great. What are your personal experiences? Are they written anywhere on any website for everyone to read? Would you mind giving a short synopsis? Please